'Glymphatic System' and CSF

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

'Glymphatic System' and CSF

Postby pairOdime » Fri Aug 17, 2012 2:31 am

Previously Unknown Cleaning System in Brain: Newer Imaging Technique Brings 'Glymphatic System' to Light
ScienceDaily (Aug. 15, 2012) — A previously unrecognized system that drains waste from the brain at a rapid clip has been discovered by neuroscientists at the University of Rochester Medical Center. The findings were published online August 15 in Science Translational Medicine.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 142042.htm
The highly organized system acts like a series of pipes that piggyback on the brain's blood vessels, sort of a shadow plumbing system that seems to serve much the same function in the brain as the lymph system does in the rest of the body -- to drain away waste products.

"It's as if the brain has two garbage haulers -- a slow one that we've known about, and a fast one that we've just met," said Nedergaard. "Given the high rate of metabolism in the brain, and its exquisite sensitivity, it's not surprising that its mechanisms to rid itself of waste are more specialized and extensive than previously realized." While the previously discovered system works more like a trickle, percolating CSF through brain tissue, the new system is under pressure, pushing large volumes of CSF through the brain each day to carry waste away more forcefully.

While a few scientists two or three decades ago hypothesized that CSF flow in the brain is more extensive than has been realized, they were unable to prove it because the technology to look at the system in a living animal did not exist at that time. "It's a hydraulic system," said Nedergaard.
It's a paradigm shift
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Re: 'Glymphatic System' and CSF

Postby Cece » Fri Aug 17, 2012 6:05 am

I think it's amazing that in 2012 there are discoveries like this that had been unknown about the body.
And the issue with CCSVI may be both in the slowing of the venous drainage and in the slowing of the CSF flow, which can drain through arachnoid granulations into the sinuses into the internal jugulars veins, where the flow is slowed by CCSVI stenosis.
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Re: 'Glymphatic System' and CSF

Postby PointsNorth » Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:37 pm

It would appear that we are approaching the steep part of the curve. :smile:
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Re: 'Glymphatic System' and CSF

Postby dania » Sat Aug 18, 2012 4:33 am

FROM DR FLANAGAN
The term "glymphatic system" was coined because of the connection to glial cells. Glial cells were once considered to be simply structural cells in the brain not nerves that conduct signals. We know now that they are far more complicated than simply structural cells. They do many thing and are too complicate to go into here. There are different types of glia cells. Oligodendrocytes are glial cells that make myelin. Astocytes are another type of glial cells. It is the so called "feet" of astrocytes that make up the blood brain barrier. What the latest imaging research shows is that CSF in the Verchow-Robbin (perivascular) spaces is connected via tiny pores to channels made from glial cells. The channels are the extension of the CSF system into the interstitial spaces of the brain. The idea is not new. The fact that we can see the glial channels is, as well as the fact that they move at different speeds. The hydraulic connection is not new. It's basic physics. I will discussing hydraulics and poroelasticity in my next two wordpress blogs. The last one was on Dandy-Walker Syndrome. I suspect that CSF hydraulics damages the brain in DWS and neurodegenerative diseases.

Among other things, I use craniopathy. It is an excellent method of working on the musculoskeletal system of the head. In the right hands it has a great deal to offer. One of the primary goals of craniopathy is to restore CSF flow. The theory behind craniopathy is called the craniosacral primary respiratory rhythm. The theory is based in part on the movement of the bones of the skull. That's how I got started in my investigation because Dr. Harry Shapiro, a physical anthropologist and expert on the human skull disagreed that the bones of the healthy skull stay open and move. He was right. Craniopathy is wrong but it still works. The theory needs to be updated. The problem with craniopathy is that it uses a highly subjective approach to analysis of the mechanical strain. You can't show craniopathic lesions on x-rays or MRI. Craniopathy is also sorely lacking when it comes to specific protocols or triage. Specific upper cervical x-rays and upright MRI as used by Dr. Rosa clearly define the strain (misalignment). That said, I have had excellent results with my specific craniosacral approach which includes craniopathy, full spine and pelvic correction.
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Re: 'Glymphatic System' and CSF

Postby cheerleader » Sat Aug 18, 2012 8:44 am

Just thinking how incredible it is that these researchers can see proof of their theories, thanks to innovations in technology. Dr. Schelling is able to see the venous reflux he had written about and researched for decades, thanks to Dr. Zamboni's deep cerebral vein doppler ultrasound tests. Dr. Flanagan's knowledge of CSF flow and the upright position is being elucidated by Fonar MRI technology, and now the viewing of the glymphatic system in vivo. The joining of these systems can be viewed with perfusion imaging studies, like the one being published by Dr. David Hubbard later this week in the JVIR.

All of these researchers are being brought together by a shared desire to understand neurodegenerative disease and a patient/caretaker population who is counting on them for answers, via the worldwide web. It's incredibly exciting to be around here, to witness this happening in real time. Points North is right...the curve appears to be getting steeper, but we're reaching critical mass.

Remember the message of Dr. Putnam's work. His research was squashed by an overzealous patient world, wanting a cure. He was kicked out as head of the NMSS because his blood thinning protocol did not cure MS, and the research money and focus went to immunologists, who were seen as the future. Sixty years later, they hold on to MS research with the help of industry. Let's not make the same mistake again. Let's give these vascular/mechanical researchers time to compile their science, money to complete their work, and the privacy to do this, unimpeded. I learned this lesson the hard way...
https://www.facebook.com/notes/ccsvi-in ... 0055457211
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dx dual jugular vein stenosis (CCSVI) 4/09
http://ccsviinms.blogspot.com
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Re: 'Glymphatic System' and CSF

Postby Tamarack » Sat Aug 18, 2012 11:34 am

Thank you for this thread.
We are approaching a juncture where collaboration among medical specialists, interdisciplinary scientists and patients is going to be crucial. This is truly a time for altruism and setting aside egos, profit motives, criticisms and turf battles.

The sooner all of the great minds working on different pieces of the neurodegenerative puzzle begin to work together to contribute their specialized knowledge and talents, the sooner the world will have answers.

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Re: 'Glymphatic System' and CSF

Postby dania » Sat Aug 18, 2012 1:41 pm

It 's a shame that researchers DO NOT SHARE their findings. Patients are the ones paying the price. If they all got together and passed on what they have discovered, I have a feeling that new treatments would be discovered much quicker.
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Re: 'Glymphatic System' and CSF

Postby HappyPoet » Sat Aug 18, 2012 7:27 pm

Oh, what a fantastic discovery!!!
And every comment is a pleasure to read.
I haven't felt this hopeful in such a long, long time.

edit: somehow missed dania's last post

dania, we won't give up until we find a way to make those researchers share their findings. :)
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Re: 'Glymphatic System' and CSF

Postby dania » Sat Aug 18, 2012 7:38 pm

Me too! I feel a total shift in the thinking of everyone! You really feel it on the internet sites.
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Re: 'Glymphatic System' and CSF

Postby blossom » Sat Aug 18, 2012 9:42 pm

bingo!bingo! bingo! 2+2 will always=4! "common sence" and compassion and passion. my body wasn't lieing to me but nobody else in the med. ms world would listen--until dr. flanagan and he has never told me anything that did not make sence plus he has the knowledge and know how that i hope is listened to and credited for and put right in there where he should have been early on.

cheer, a while back here at tims when i was going on about the bone spurs and stenosis in my cervical spine and dr. flanagan and you comented that you had bone spurs and did not have ms. and i told you you were damn lucky!

i'm glad to see you aboard and i hope that this getting together of dr.'s at a round table if ccsvi alliance has anything to do with it has dr. flanagan and his knowledge right in there -- where he should have been from the get go. it may have saved some a lot of grief including myself. but, it is what it is and now is now. so, here's to hope!!

maybe ccsvi alliance should be having a little chat with dr. amir and andrew fletcher if you haven't already. AGAIN, here's to hope. "and common sence"
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Re: 'Glymphatic System' and CSF

Postby 1eye » Sun Aug 19, 2012 3:52 am

altruism and setting aside egos, profit motives, criticisms and turf battles
But without them, some folks wouldn't have any fun at all! Good luck with it.
"Try - Just A Little Bit Harder" - Janis Joplin
CCSVI procedure Albany Aug 2010
'MS' is over - if you want it
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Re: 'Glymphatic System' and CSF

Postby HappyPoet » Sun Aug 19, 2012 9:15 am

blossom, it's wonderful watching more and more doctors getting their rightful place at the table. Once this snowball passes the highest point on PointsNorth's curve, there won't be any way that anyone nor anything can stop its momentum--not neurologists, not insurance companies, not pharmaceutical companies, not "MS" societies, and not the FDA. These are exciting times with exciting discoveries and much hope!
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Re: 'Glymphatic System' and CSF

Postby MarkW » Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:39 am

cheerleader wrote:..................Putman's research was squashed by an overzealous patient world, wanting a cure. He was kicked out as head of the NMSS because his blood thinning protocol did not cure MS, and the research money and focus went to immunologists, who were seen as the future. Sixty years later, they hold on to MS research with the help of industry. Let's not make the same mistake again. Let's give these vascular/mechanical researchers time to compile their science, money to complete their work, and the privacy to do this, unimpeded. I learned this lesson the hard way...
https://www.facebook.com/notes/ccsvi-in ... 0055457211
cheer

The first point to note on this research is that it was performed on mice, remember mice do not develop MS.
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Mark Walker - Oxfordshire, England. Registered Pharmacist (UK). 11 years of study around MS.
Mark's CCSVI Report 7-Mar-11:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/8359854/MS-experts-in-Britain-have-to-open-their-minds.html
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Re: 'Glymphatic System' and CSF

Postby cheerleader » Mon Aug 20, 2012 2:04 pm

Um, if you're commenting on what I wrote, Mark (since you quoted me?)...Putnam's research was dogs and then humans, not mice. His blood thinning protocol was on humans. (If you're on Facebook, read the whole linked note on Putnam. It was researched, and the links to medical journals and publications are provided. The point was that we need to keep the vascular/mechanical research moving ahead)
We need to look into the glymphatic system, endothelium and CSF for more answers, because they are part of the venous return from the brain, and connected to CCSVI. And, like Tamarak said, we need to put aside turf wars, ego, etc and come together.... :-D
take care,
cheer
Husband dx RRMS 3/07
dx dual jugular vein stenosis (CCSVI) 4/09
http://ccsviinms.blogspot.com
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Re: 'Glymphatic System' and CSF

Postby lena-g » Mon Aug 20, 2012 3:27 pm

MarkW wrote:The first point to note on this research is that it was performed on mice, remember mice do not develop MS.
MarkW


Hello everyone! (I read every day, and it’s thanks to Thisisms that I discovered CCSVI)
Allow me to intervene : because
I think Mark W meant that the study "glymphatic" was done on mice, and did not speak Putnam ... if I understood correctly???
Nedergaard's team …. The team made the findings in mice, whose brains are remarkably similar to the human brain.

(Excuse my English, :oops: I'm French)

I find this very interesting study, and I agree with you, Joan:
Just thinking how incredible it is That thesis Researchers can see proof of Their theories, thanks to innovations in technology.

There has to hope that the doctors of different disciplines up their minds finally to cooperate ... And "thanks to innovations in technology!"

And a huge THANK YOU all of you for all information you share ...
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