A Mind Emerges Joyfully After Years Lost in a Cloud

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

A Mind Emerges Joyfully After Years Lost in a Cloud

Postby dania » Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:37 am

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Re: A Mind Emerges Joyfully After Years Lost in a Cloud

Postby erinc14 » Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:56 am

i can only read 1 page , damn it!
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Re: A Mind Emerges Joyfully After Years Lost in a Cloud

Postby Cece » Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:51 am

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Re: A Mind Emerges Joyfully After Years Lost in a Cloud

Postby 1eye » Mon Nov 26, 2012 3:41 pm

This sounds wonderful. I believe I have said before that I would be willing to undergo a venous shunt operation.

I don't know much about the high-pressure shunt but my brother has one in his jugular, that has been replaced at least once. It is still there, now empty, because they want to leave well enough alone. He has had a few seizures in the last year, which is a new development, 45+ years after the first shunt. I think besides shunting excess CSF these devices have a valve or two in them. One is for the normal purpose, a 1-way valve that prevents backflow. I am not sure they even do that. But I did read there is something that limits excessive drainage so you don't have all your CSF drain out. It still goes to his heart, so the bottom half sounds like it must be "original equipment".

Dr. Seymour Gendelman may have decided it was not worth the risk to put it in her neck, and used the spinal-tap access to do something similar. Both cases seem like they relieve pressure. It does sound like pressure is the real problem, whether it's called Normal or not.

I don't know about how the CSF is produced. I speculate that if CSF pressure is behind "MS", yes, a bump on the head could result in that, and so could your heredity. It might be relieved in *some* cases by better blood drainage, presuming there is some tight connection between the two fluid systems. There is certainly a tight connection in the sense that inside the skull they are both limited by the bones of the skull, and how compliant the brains are. Does age reduce compliance or increase it?

My first event with what they call "MS", in my case ended with a diagnosis of "a bruise on the brain". I was sent home with the prediction that it would get better by itself, and it did. After about six months I was as normal as I had ever been. That was in the summer of 1982, before the advent of MRI. My next event was 7 years later.,and I had a neck MRI which did not have any problem they could see. That was 1989, when MRI was new. I do not rule out CSF pressure as causing *my* problem, after reading this story. Does anyone know, in numbers, what is normal, or how it is measured? By spinal tap?
"Try - Just A Little Bit Harder" - Janis Joplin
CCSVI procedure Albany Aug 2010
'MS' is over - if you want it
Patients sans/without patience
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Re: A Mind Emerges Joyfully After Years Lost in a Cloud

Postby dania » Mon Nov 26, 2012 3:50 pm

1eye wrote:This sounds wonderful. I believe I have said before that I would be willing to undergo a venous shunt operation.

I don't know much about the high-pressure shunt but my brother has one in his jugular, that has been replaced at least once. It is still there, now empty, because they want to leave well enough alone. He has had a few seizures in the last year, which is a new development, 45+ years after the first shunt. I think besides shunting excess CSF these devices have a valve or two in them. One is for the normal purpose, a 1-way valve that prevents backflow. I am not sure they even do that. But I did read there is something that limits excessive drainage so you don't have all your CSF drain out. It still goes to his heart, so the bottom half sounds like it must be "original equipment".

Dr. Seymour Gendelman may have decided it was not worth the risk to put it in her neck, and used the spinal-tap access to do something similar. Both cases seem like they relieve pressure. It does sound like pressure is the real problem, whether it's called Normal or not.

I don't know about how the CSF is produced. I speculate that if CSF pressure is behind "MS", yes, a bump on the head could result in that, and so could your heredity. It might be relieved in *some* cases by better blood drainage, presuming there is some tight connection between the two fluid systems. There is certainly a tight connection in the sense that inside the skull they are both limited by the bones of the skull, and how compliant the brains are. Does age reduce compliance or increase it?

My first event with what they call "MS", in my case ended with a diagnosis of "a bruise on the brain". I was sent home with the prediction that it would get better by itself, and it did. After about six months I was as normal as I had ever been. That was in the summer of 1982, before the advent of MRI. My next event was 7 years later.,and I had a neck MRI which did not have any problem they could see. That was 1989, when MRI was new. I do not rule out CSF pressure as causing *my* problem, after reading this story. Does anyone know, in numbers, what is normal, or how it is measured? By spinal tap?

http://www.neurosurgery.pitt.edu/cerebr ... s/nph.html
http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/norm ... phalus.htm
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Re: A Mind Emerges Joyfully After Years Lost in a Cloud

Postby Rogan » Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:38 pm

1eye wrote:I don't know about how the CSF is produced. I speculate that if CSF pressure is behind "MS", yes, a bump on the head could result in that, and so could your heredity. It might be relieved in *some* cases by better blood drainage, presuming there is some tight connection between the two fluid systems. There is certainly a tight connection in the sense that inside the skull they are both limited by the bones of the skull, and how compliant the brains are. Does age reduce compliance or increase it?

Does anyone know, in numbers, what is normal, or how it is measured? By spinal tap?



1Eye, Dr. Flanagan (the UprightDoc here) wrote in his incredible book "The Downside of Upright Posture" the most amazing description of this process. I hope it's ok to quote him here.

"The active production of CSF occurs all day long regardless of whether a person is upright, lying down, or inverted. As stated previously, active production uses energy derived from burning fuel from food with oxygen to make salts. The salt is used to create a concentration gradient that pulls blood out of the telea choroidea, which line the ventricles, and through an extra-fine filter called the blood-brain barrier. After passing through the filter blood becomes CSF, which is mostly water with some sugar and a few other things mixed in. According to a study done at Rutgers University, the average amount of active CSF production is about 500 ml, or two cups a day."



1eye wrote:
Does anyone know, in numbers, what is normal, or how it is measured? By spinal tap?


Again from his wonderful book...

"The passive production of CSF is dependent upon a slight increase in the CSF pressure gradient, which drops from about +5 to 10 mmHg, in the recumbent position, to about -5 mmHg in the upright position....In any case, blockage of the accessory drainage system could increase resistance to flow through the dural sinuses. This would decrease the pressure gradient and passive production of CSF, which could weaken brain support"

I have read on Wikipedia that currently CSF pressure is read through a very invasive wire placed on the brain. A few European companies have patented a device that can non-invasively read this pressure through your eye.

Hope this helps answer your question, I highly recommend Dr. Flanagan's book.
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