smoking bad for MS, snuff good for MS

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

smoking bad for MS, snuff good for MS

Postby Cece » Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:03 pm

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23319071
Mult Scler. 2013 Jan 14. [Epub ahead of print]
Nicotine might have a protective effect in the etiology of multiple sclerosis.
Hedström A, Hillert J, Olsson T, Alfredsson L.
Source
Institute of Environmental Medicine, Karolinska Institutet, Sweden.
Abstract
OBJECTIVE:
The use of moist snuff is common in Sweden and leads to exposure to high doses of nicotine. Recent studies indicate that exposure to nicotine could modulate immune responses. The aim of this study was to investigate the influence of snuff use on the risk of developing multiple sclerosis (MS), taking smoking habits into consideration.
METHODS:
In two Swedish population-based, case-control studies (7883 cases, 9437 controls), subjects with different snuff use habits were compared regarding MS risk, by calculating odds ratios (ORs) with 95% confidence intervals (CIs).
RESULTS:
Snuff-takers have a decreased risk of developing MS compared with those who have never used moist snuff (OR 0.83, 95% CI 0.75-0.92), and we found clear evidence of an inverse dose-response correlation between cumulative dose of snuff use and the risk of developing the disease. We further observed that subjects who combined smoking and snuff use had a significantly lower risk for MS than smokers who had never used moist snuff, also after adjustment for amount of smoking.
CONCLUSIONS:
Our results add evidence to the hypothesis that nicotine exerts anti-inflammatory and immune-modulating effects in a way that might decrease the risk of developing MS.

It's well established elsewhere that smokers are more likely to get MS and more likely to have an uglier course of MS. And so you might expect snuff-taking to have a smilar effect. Instead, snuff is protective against MS. People who use snuff were less likely to get MS. And if you're a smoker, you'd have been better off combining smoking and snuffing, compared to smokers who don't use snuff.

Why?? From a CCSVI perspective, smoking diminishes oxygenation. As far as I know, snuff does not.
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Re: smoking bad for MS, snuff good for MS

Postby cheerleader » Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:50 pm

Hi Cece--Saw that one today, and remembered another study on this from a couple years ago....same Swedish researchers, same place (Karolinska) and they noted that snuff didn't seem to elevate risk of MS. Weird, huh?
Conclusions: Smokers of both sexes run an increased risk of developing multiple sclerosis (MS), and the risk increases with cumulative dose of smoking. However, the use of Swedish snuff is not associated with elevated risk for MS, which may indicate that nicotine is not the substance responsible for the increased risk of developing MS among smokers.


Now they're saying it may be helpful? That those who use snus have a decreased risk of MS because nicotine exerts anti-inflammtory/immune modulating effects? There are much safer ways to get anti-inflammatories. Especially since other studies have been done, and find snus usage linked to oral cancer, pancreatic cancer, diabetes and cardivascular disease.
http://tobaccocontrol.bmj.com/content/12/4/349.full
http://sjp.sagepub.com/content/40/8/730.abstract
http://www.ecpc-online.org/press-room/1 ... screening7

So, I decided to do some digging. Apparently, Swedish snus is used by 25% of the population in Sweden, (ewww!) and seen as a "safer" alternative to smoking, but snus is banned in the EU. There's been some interesting dealings between a shady Maltese businessman, an EU health commissioner and snus manufacturer, Swedish Match, with bribes being solicited to get officials to lift the snus ban in the EU.
Snus, Swedish Match's main product, is banned everywhere in the EU except Sweden which has lobbied to get the ban overturned. Swedish daily Aftonbladet reported that the businessman had asked Swedish Match for 10 million euros in advance and another 50 million once the legislation was changed.

http://ec.europa.eu/anti_fraud/media-co ... _01_en.htm
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/10/ ... VQ20121019

Anyway, l-o-n-g and convoluted story made short-- Swedish Match uses studies published in the Lancet as proof of the "positive" effect of snus on public health, while trying to get the EU ban on their product overturned. I dunno....when there's this much money involved, it makes you wonder. Who the heck paid for the snus studies, anyway?
http://www.swedishmatch.com/en/Media/Pr ... c-health-/

the ever dubious,
cheer
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Re: smoking bad for MS, snuff good for MS

Postby CureOrBust » Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:33 am

http://www.thisisms.com/forum/general-discussion-f1/topic4179.html

http://health.howstuffworks.com/wellness/drugs-alcohol/nicotine-health-benefits.htm
In 2000, a study performed at Stanford revealed surprising results about nicotine's effects on blood vessels. Contrary to popular opinion, the study showed that nicotine actually boosts the growth of new blood vessels
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Re: smoking bad for MS, snuff good for MS

Postby cheerleader » Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:40 am

CureOrBust wrote:http://www.thisisms.com/forum/general-discussion-f1/topic4179.html

http://health.howstuffworks.com/wellness/drugs-alcohol/nicotine-health-benefits.htm
In 2000, a study performed at Stanford revealed surprising results about nicotine's effects on blood vessels. Contrary to popular opinion, the study showed that nicotine actually boosts the growth of new blood vessels


Thank, Cure!! Completely forgotten that one. You caught it back in '07. I remember reading that John Cooke got some flack for that discovery, and stopped the grant--since it was partially funded by Phillip Morris (!) http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?ti ... n_P._Cooke

In 1999, my laboratory group was examining factors that interfere with therapeutic angiogenesis. As a specialist in vascular medicine, I was interested to know why some individuals are not capable of generating an adequate angiogenic response to coronary or peripheral arterial obstruction. I asked one of the students in the laboratory (James Jang) to help me test the hypothesis that nicotine could interfere with angiogenesis. This hypothesis was based on the observation that smokers have an impairment of endothelial vasodilator function, possibly related to decreased bioactivity or synthesis of nitric oxide (NO) and prostacyclin (PGI2) (Celermajer et al, 1993; Reinders et al, 1986). This is significant because endothelium derived NO and PGI2 are critically involved in a number of angiogenic processes including endothelial cell survival, proliferation and migration. Indeed, we had previously shown that the endogenous NO synthase inhibitor, asymmetric dimethylarginine (ADMA) was anti-angiogenic (Jang et al, 2000). Notably, ADMA is elevated in disease states associated with impaired angiogenesis such as hypercholesterolemia (Cooke, 2004). Thus, we hypothesized that tobacco smoking may elevate plasma ADMA levels, and thus impair endothelium dependent vasodilation and angiogenesis.

There are over 4,000 different chemicals in tobacco smoke (U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, 1989), which makes it difficult to determine the individual effects of these agents on angiogenesis. Accordingly, we focused on nicotine, the major bioactive component of tobacco. We hypothesized that nicotine would impair the NO synthase pathway, and inhibit angiogenesis. Indeed, other workers had suggested that nicotine could be toxic to endothelial cells (Suzuki et al, 1994). However, these observations were made using doses of nicotine that were above clinically relevant concentrations.

To determine the effect of nicotine on angiogenesis, we first used a disc angiogenesis assay. A pellet of polyvinyl alcohol sponge was loaded with nicotine solution, coated with a copolymer for slow elution, and placed into a sponge disc, with filter paper backing on each side. When the disk is placed subcutaneously in mice, vessels enter through the rim of the disk. To our great surprise, in the nicotine-treated disk, fibrovascular growth was accelerated. The angiogenic effect of nicotine was equipotent to basic fibroblast growth factor (FGF) in this model (Heeschen et al, 2001). These observations caused us to consider what role nicotine-induced angiogenesis might play in tobacco-related disease.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1941778/

This might be the CCSVI/MS/snus/nicotine connection? I dunno. Snus for everyone! (ick.)
cheer
Last edited by cheerleader on Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: smoking bad for MS, snuff good for MS

Postby Cece » Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:03 am

I really don't think I could take up a snuff habit. Just, no. But I'd be ok with nicotine gum if it turned out to be good for us.

People who choose snuff could also be less likely to get MS for unrelated reasons. Lower class vs upper class, male vs female? I wonder if the study about snuff and MS controlled for any of that.

Really great info, Cure and Cheer.
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Re: smoking bad for MS, snuff good for MS

Postby 1eye » Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:52 pm

I think there is also an inverse relationship between Cancer and MS. Cancer being characterized by mutant angiogenesis and uncontrolled blood supply characteristic of precancerous cells becoming malignant. S'nuff said.
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Re: smoking bad for MS, snuff good for MS

Postby CureOrBust » Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:27 am

Cece wrote:I really don't think I could take up a snuff habit. Just, no. But I'd be ok with nicotine gum if it turned out to be good for us.
At the time, I tried patches. Stopped soon after.
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Re: smoking bad for MS, snuff good for MS

Postby Cece » Thu Jan 24, 2013 9:02 am

1eye wrote:I think there is also an inverse relationship between Cancer and MS. Cancer being characterized by mutant angiogenesis and uncontrolled blood supply characteristic of precancerous cells becoming malignant. S'nuff said.

There is an inverse relationship between MS and cancer. I had heard it explained as the strong or over-active immune system in MS being good at catching early cancerous cells. Another possibility is that people with MS tend to live healthier lifestyles to attempt to compensate for the MS. But it is a different possibility to consider the explanation to be reduced angiogenesis in people with MS.
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Re: smoking bad for MS, snuff good for MS

Postby gibbledygook » Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:08 am

Well, I must give the anatabine another go. It's the tobacco plant anti inflammatory I tried a few weeks ago. It definitely has anti inflammatory effects but is a powerful tumour necrosis factor suppressant which may be bad in ms.
3 years antibiotics, 06/09 bilateral jug stents at C1, 05/11 ballooning of both jug valves, 07/12 stenting of renal vein, azygos & jug valve ballooning,
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Snuff in Sweden

Postby MarkW » Sat Jan 26, 2013 8:32 am

Over 25 years ago I had a Swedish girlfriend and spent summers in Sweden. Snuff was not snorted or chewed but placed in the mouth in a small tissue bag (think of a very small tea bag if you are a Brit). Adsorption of the chemicals from the tobacco was was very quick and the high pretty fast. in the 80's in Sweden it was socially acceptable for professional females in business to use tobacco in this way in social situations, no idea of current usage.............
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Re: smoking bad for MS, snuff good for MS

Postby 1eye » Sat Jan 26, 2013 10:22 am

But it is a different possibility to consider the explanation to be reduced angiogenesis in people with MS.


You would think so. I was thinking of a couple of things: 1. A remission may be characterized by new collateral growth (extra growth in "MS" necks found by Zivadinov); 2. LDN may work by promoting angiogenesis, ameliorating flow problems.

This suggests there is a problem with the speed of angiogenesis when responding to a sudden (exacerbating) or worsening (progressing) flow problem in the veins.
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