Even Mild Hits to Head Disrupt Blood-Brain Barrier

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Even Mild Hits to Head Disrupt Blood-Brain Barrier

Postby Cece » Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:41 am

http://www.medpagetoday.com/Neurology/H ... id=5517461

You might have to register with medscape for free before being able to follow that link.
Football players who experienced repeated mild hits to the head, even without receiving a true concussion, showed evidence of disruption of the blood-brain barrier and an autoimmune response in the brain, which may help explain the premature neurodegeneration increasingly seen in athletes, researchers suggested.
In addition, the loss of patency in the blood-brain barrier can have even more serious consequences in the context of autoimmunity, when anti-CNS antibodies attack the brain, as occurs in multiple sclerosis.

"Loss of blood-brain barrier integrity supports CNS antigen unmasking and triggers a peripheral immune response. Circulating autoantibodies against CNS antigen become pathogenic when allowed access into the brain," they explained.

MrSuccess, this one's for you. :)
Cece
Family Elder
 
Posts: 8992
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 4:00 pm

Advertisement

Re: Even Mild Hits to Head Disrupt Blood-Brain Barrier

Postby MrSuccess » Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:38 pm

Hi Cece - Good find. Yes .... Trauma ..... is indeed my area of interest. The numericals and association between Traumatic injury to the neck-head-spine are too large to ignore.

Many pwMS will read this and say to themselves ..... I have MS , and I cannot recall ever having been in any traumatic situation involving my head , neck , or spine. So what the hell is MrSuccess going on about ?

CCSVI is simple in concept . Blood vessels that when functioning normally , allow blood to circulate from your heart to your head , and back again to your heart.

Halt or reduce bloodflow INTO your brain .... and the consequences can be FATAL.

Halt or reduce bloodflow OUT of your brain .... and the consequences are numerous .... most of which will harm your health and well being.

I challenge the NMSS to gather all information regarding pwMS health history PRIOR to their being diagnosed as having MS. I can say with great confidence that TRAUMA will be a common forerunner .

Just ask " WATSON ". :idea: :idea: :idea: :idea: :idea: :idea:


Thanks again Cece


MrSuccess
User avatar
MrSuccess
Family Elder
 
Posts: 883
Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2009 3:00 pm

Re: Even Mild Hits to Head Disrupt Blood-Brain Barrier

Postby ljelome » Fri Mar 08, 2013 12:14 am

Pardon me, Cece n MrSuccess.
So if i may conclude that minor hits to the head repeatedly can cause MS or CCSVI or both? (i know that a boxer can develop Parkinson because of numerous hits to the head)
And what do you suggest to fix it? Can it be cured?
I really need a way out of this disease (MS), not only knowing the causal factor of it.
Thank u for ur explanation.
Warm regards,
Linda

|For the joy of the Lord is your strength | A cheerful heart is good medicine, but a crushed spirit dries up the bones| God always leads us to where we need to be, not where we want to be|
ljelome
Family Elder
 
Posts: 126
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:46 pm
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia

Re: Even Mild Hits to Head Disrupt Blood-Brain Barrier

Postby trisca » Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:49 am

I was diagnosed with ms at 19. I've never had a blow to the head, to my knowledge.
trisca
Family Member
 
Posts: 63
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2012 5:24 am

Re: Even Mild Hits to Head Disrupt Blood-Brain Barrier

Postby Cece » Fri Mar 08, 2013 10:20 am

There are plenty of people who get blows to the head or neck who do not go on to develop MS. It's really hard to draw conclusions from this.

If trauma led to a more open blood-brain barrier which led to an autoimmune reaction against the brain (in someone who was prone to having such autoimmune reactions anyway), then what can be done is exactly what the neurologists are doing: immune system modifying drugs. The best outcome would be to tighten up the blood-brain barrier or to reduce the number of active autoimmune t-cells or b-cells. Are you on an MS drug? It's also possible that by treating CCSVI outflow obstructions, the blood flow speeds up and that would strengthen the blood-brain barrier.

I think the goals with any MS treatment would be to prevent further damage and to heal what damage is already there. My belief is that MS is multifactorial in origin and it takes a combination of genetic factors and environmental factors to cause MS.
Cece
Family Elder
 
Posts: 8992
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 4:00 pm

Re: Even Mild Hits to Head Disrupt Blood-Brain Barrier

Postby cheerleader » Fri Mar 08, 2013 10:32 am

Hi Cece--
thanks for linking this. What I found strange about the press release was how the researchers were calling this an "autoimmune" reaction, and likening it to MS. We don't call the same reaction in stroke "autoimmune." Me thinks they might be looking for a larger market share for MS drugs. Tysabri infusion prescribed after a head injury? Or for people with Alzheimer's? Hate to be a cynic, but I'm afraid this is where we're headed. The truth is, we still don't understand the blood brain barrier, and what is a protective reaction and what is injurious.

The immune system can play both detrimental and beneficial roles in the nervous system. Multiple arms of the immune system, including T cells, B cells, NK cells, mast cells, macrophages, dendritic cells, microglia, antibodies, complement and cytokines participate in limiting damage to the nervous system during toxic, ischemic, hemorrhagic, infective, degenerative, metabolic and immune-mediated insults and also assist in the process of repair after injury has occurred. Immune cells have been shown to produce neurotrophic growth factors and interact with neurons and glial cells to preserve them from injury and stimulate growth and repair. The immune system also appears to participate in proliferation of neural progenitor stem cells and their migration to sites of injury. Neural stem cells can also modify the immune response in the central and peripheral nervous system to enhance neuroprotective effects. Evidence for protective and reparative functions of the immune system has been found in diverse neurologic diseases including traumatic injury, ischemic and hemorrhagic stroke, multiple sclerosis, infection, and neurodegenerative diseases (Alzheimer's disease, Parkinson's disease and amyotrophic lateral sclerosis).

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19000712

I guess the larger point might be--shouldn't we understand this immune reaction-which happens in trauma, stroke, and MS- in more depth before calling it "autoimmune"? Especially since it is repairing neurons and glial cells? The idea that the body is simply attacking itself, and this is bad is simply not true. The reality is more complex, and deserves more understanding before prescribing serious immune modulating therapies.

cheer
Husband dx RRMS 3/07
dx dual jugular vein stenosis (CCSVI) 4/09
http://ccsviinms.blogspot.com
User avatar
cheerleader
Family Elder
 
Posts: 5015
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 3:00 pm
Location: southern California

Re: Even Mild Hits to Head Disrupt Blood-Brain Barrier

Postby Ernst » Fri Mar 08, 2013 11:48 am

Ooops.. my blood-brain-barrier has been lots of disrupted, I suppose. Use to train muay-thai about 15 yrs and lots of sparring with younger guys, who fight in tournaments. I quit training after my wife's dx, cause I got more knowledge about brain and it's vulnerability, especially when you get older.
My wife's 3 yrs post video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLeqLps8XR8

Our family: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_QCKxeQAlg
User avatar
Ernst
Family Elder
 
Posts: 294
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2008 4:00 pm
Location: Rovaniemi

Re: Even Mild Hits to Head Disrupt Blood-Brain Barrier

Postby lena-g » Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:18 pm

Hello everybody!


I am a faithful reader of Thisisms, and I appreciate the quality of your informations ...

I am a french woman, and now, here, it's the "Women's Day" and we are fighting for "parity Men / Women" (jobs, wages, and ...).
However, there is a gross injustice (LOL!): this, is the ratio men / women in MS, and the gap does not cease to grow: 50 years ago, there were almost as many women as men with MS; 30 years ago, two women to one man, and now, studies say three women to one man ...
   I think the research on sports "manly", trauma, and MS, does not really explain the causes of the occurrence of this disease ... largely.
    What do you advocate for parity Men / Women in MS?? (not more women than men!)?? Why, this difference??

   (It's just a little humor!)

(please, excuse my "English").
User avatar
lena-g
Getting to Know You...
 
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon May 17, 2010 3:00 pm

Re: Even Mild Hits to Head Disrupt Blood-Brain Barrier

Postby ThisIsMA » Sat Mar 09, 2013 1:00 pm

Hi lena-g,

Your email made me start wondering whether the change in the ratio of men versus women being diagnosed with MS is because there has been an increase in the number of women getting MS? Or is it because of a decrease in the number of men getting MS? Or could it be some combination of the two.

If its all about the women, then we should be looking at what lifestyle or diet changes have occurred with women in the past 50 years that haven't occurred with men.

If fewer men are getting MS than used to, then we should look at what diet and lifestyle changes have occurred in men in the past 50 years that haven't occurred in women.
DX 6-09 RRMS
User avatar
ThisIsMA
Family Elder
 
Posts: 151
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 4:00 pm
Location: USA

Re: Even Mild Hits to Head Disrupt Blood-Brain Barrier

Postby lena-g » Sat Mar 09, 2013 3:15 pm

Hi, ThisIsMa,

My opinion joins Vesta's analysis, a Thisismer!
There is especially a fact that women have, by nature, a blood system different from that of men, which shows it by menstrual cycle.

What I find surprising : it is influence of pregnancy on MS: during the period of pregnancy, MS is slowed down, but, just after delivery, there is a kind of effect « bounce effect », and MS deteriorates. Why???

Can he exist a complication because of veins there? A modification of the blood circulation?? Anything else? But what??

Because there was been the year increase in the number of women getting MS? Yet(now) is it because of has decrease in the number of men getting MS? Yet(now) could it be some combination of the two.

I think that there are more and more people, men AND women, who are diagnosed with MS, but the number of women progresses faster than the number of men: the similitary is because of men and women undergo the same outer factors (stress, modern lifestyle, food, toxic etc.), but the difference is that blood which transports certain toxins collides probably with more modifications in veins... What do you think about that???

(Sorry, I express myself very badly in English!)

-Regards-
User avatar
lena-g
Getting to Know You...
 
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon May 17, 2010 3:00 pm

Re: Even Mild Hits to Head Disrupt Blood-Brain Barrier

Postby ThisIsMA » Sat Mar 09, 2013 4:25 pm

Hi again,

Thanks for your reply! Your English is much better than my French, so I am impressed!

I think there must be more than just the difference in anatomy between men and women that causes the difference between the rate of MS in women and men. The reason I say this, is because the difference in the rate of MS between men and women has increased so dramatically over a very short period of time. 50 years is a much shorter period of time than what it takes evolution to occur in order to change our anatomy! So there must be some other reason besides anatomical differences.

If I had to guess, I would start thinking of possibilities like the fact that women have become more physically active in the last 50 years, such as more involved in outdoor activities and sports. Or some lifestyle or diet change that affects women's anatomy more that it affects men's anatomy. I agree that the fact that MS is less common during pregnancy and then is more likely to recur after pregnancy is fascinating, and may have to do with blood flow and veins. I definitely don't know the answer, I'm just curious about it. I suppose it could also have to do with new toxins in the environment or in our food that affect women's anatomy more than man's triggering MS. For instance plastic has become much much more present in the environment that it was 50 years ago. Artificial sugars are also much more common. It's interesting to think about. I sure hope that scientists who are able to do studies will think about these things too.
DX 6-09 RRMS
User avatar
ThisIsMA
Family Elder
 
Posts: 151
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 4:00 pm
Location: USA

Re: Even Mild Hits to Head Disrupt Blood-Brain Barrier

Postby NHE » Sun Mar 10, 2013 2:24 am

lena-g wrote: What I find surprising : it is influence of pregnancy on MS: during the period of pregnancy, MS is slowed down, but, just after delivery, there is a kind of effect « bounce effect », and MS deteriorates. Why???


A baby is essentially a foreign body. During pregnancy, a mother's body downregulates her immune system to prevent the developing fetus from being destroyed. After birth, the mother's immune system activity is restored.
User avatar
NHE
Volunteer Moderator
 
Posts: 3251
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2004 4:00 pm

Re: Even Mild Hits to Head Disrupt Blood-Brain Barrier

Postby civickiller » Sun Mar 10, 2013 3:08 pm

Trauma/head injuries can cause a blocking of csf so it backs up in the ventricles which can only hold so much csf until it overflows which is why you see most scaring in the brain starting at the ventricle then spreads out. Since csf shouldnt be in the brain itself, when the ventricle ruptures,the immune system attacks . Alot better quick explanation then the immune system has gone crazy.

An example everyone can relate to, think gas in a car. Gas is normally only in the gas tank, fuel lines, and engine. so what happen when you put to much gas, it overflows. What if you get gas on painted surfaces, plastics, it can strip paint, melt plastic, catch fires same as csf if it overflows and gets onto anything not designed to mix with csf and the scarring/attacking starts
User avatar
civickiller
Family Elder
 
Posts: 555
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 4:00 pm
Location: Hawaii

Re: Even Mild Hits to Head Disrupt Blood-Brain Barrier

Postby cheerleader » Sun Mar 10, 2013 3:50 pm

Not to go too far off topic, lena, but there is a correlation between the male/female ratio in MS and idiopathic intracranial hypertension, or a build up of CSF in the brain, creating too much pressure. IHH is typically a disease of overweight women of child-bearing age. And a link has been made to birth control pills---something which is being considered in the increase in MS in young women.

Another correlation can be found in venous disease, which affects women twice as often as men. Hormones and the difference in venous vasculature come in to play. During pregnancy, the body increases the amount of blood circulating thru the body by 50%, and the women's venous vasculature expands. Veins become more pliant, due to hormonal changes (which is why we see more varicose veins and hemorrhoids during pregnancy. This goes away after childbirth, and in the CCSVI paradigm, it could explain why MS often calms down during pregnancy....because of better perfusion.

During pregnancy, blood volume increases by approximately 50 percent. If the vascular system remained as it normally is, the increased volume of blood would cause dangerously high blood pressure. Fortunately, the body is able to compensate through vascular changes. During pregnancy, existing blood vessels become larger and stretchier to accommodate the increase in blood. Networks of new blood also appear throughout the body. Because blood vessels become softer and stretchier, and are often "overfilled," it is not uncommon for blood to leak into surrounding tissues.

http://www.ehow.com/about_4707241_vascu ... nancy.html

Lots to think about.
cheer
Husband dx RRMS 3/07
dx dual jugular vein stenosis (CCSVI) 4/09
http://ccsviinms.blogspot.com
User avatar
cheerleader
Family Elder
 
Posts: 5015
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 3:00 pm
Location: southern California

Re: Even Mild Hits to Head Disrupt Blood-Brain Barrier

Postby lena-g » Sun Mar 10, 2013 7:13 pm

Thanks every body, for answers!

Cheerleader, This article "about_vascular-changes-during-pregnancy" is very interesting, thank you !

The traumas in head, or in the vertebral column, and their relations with MS, disturb me a lot.. However, I think that it cannot explain the difference between men and women, because the women do not practise so violent sports as Football or rugby, and nevertheless, they are more and more numerous to receive the diagnosis of MS...

Disruption of the brain-blood barrier, perhaps, causes MS (i think that, yes !) but we have to determine all the different factors which cause this fact : these (factors) may be different between men and women, but they lead to the same résult for both genders...
Let us keep hope!
Have a good day!

Hélène
( http://www.forseps.org/)
User avatar
lena-g
Getting to Know You...
 
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon May 17, 2010 3:00 pm

Next

Return to Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency (CCSVI)

 


  • Related topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users