When CCSVI fails, try AO and/or the Dentist

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Re: When CCSVI fails, try AO and/or the Dentist

Postby Rosegirl » Sat Mar 30, 2013 5:22 am

For years, I’ve made four bathroom trips every night and occasionally, I got there too late. For a few weeks in February, I rarely made it there in time. I started using tissues as recommended by Dr. Williams. The last four nights, every trip was successful, not even close to having an accident.

I’m moving a little faster these days, but I think the change is that something else is working better. I don’t know whether it’s a muscle that is stronger or a better neurological signal. But, wow, life is a lot more comfortable and convenient.
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Re: When CCSVI fails, try AO and/or the Dentist

Postby JeanDeEau » Sat Mar 30, 2013 10:08 am

Vesta says
What will seem really stupid is all the heavy duty drugs, chemotherapy etc MS treatments for what is essentially a body tension problem. I have found a one to rwo minute upper back and neck massage is enough to stop an attack for me. I'm starting the tissue method tonight. Thanks for posting this.

MS Cure Enigmas.net

So just how do you know that MS is essentially a body tension problem?
The only person I know of who has had chemotherapy for MS is Terry Wahls (along with electro stimulation) and she still promotes "her" diet.
Is the MS Cure Enigmas website yours, maybe? Lets look at a quote from it:
Apparently one third of MS cases experience a spectacular recovery after the blocked veins
leading from the CNS are opened with angioplasty.This means a
Cure. Unfortunately, the improvement doesn't always last, the veins may
close up again.

This really means that CCSVI is not a cure, just a treatment!!! If it was a cure, it would not have to be done over. It is just a treatment so do not rubbish other treatments that have been proven to work.
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Re: When CCSVI fails, try AO and/or the Dentist

Postby vesta » Sun Mar 31, 2013 7:33 am

No treatment has been "proven" to work for everyone. For those who experience a spectacular recovery after CCSVI which endures, they can consider themselves cured. But that won't work for everyone and I believe other options should be tried first. I believe MS is essentially a body tension problem which impedes blood/fluid circulation from the brain, but the causes may be many, hence the potential "cures". However, try as they might, I don't believe a single cure will be found. Yes, MS Cure Enigmas.net is my site. Read at least the main page so I don't repeat myself here. But I believe that my entry at thisisms.com of Dec 16, 2012 "Five CCSVI MS Types" under the CCSVI thread changed the conversatioon by suggesting "skeletal ms" in which blood circulation is impeded by pressure ON the vein rather than a problem IN the vein. Now consideration is given to CSF flow as well as CCSVI in the brain fluid circulation problem. (CCSVI Alliance)

"I believe Dr. Zamboni has discovered the problem – venous blood reflux or CCSVI – but not the sole solution. Detoxification and nutritional therapy coupled with circulation therapies and/or skeletal adjustments may suffice to cure or control MS without taking the risk of angioplasty.
I've concluded there are 5 basic MS types, all of which leading to a reflux of venous blood into the Central Nervous System.
1) CONGENITAL vein malformations. 2) DEVELOPMENTAL vein malformations. 3) AGING vein malformations 4) SKELETAL – Cerebrospinal fluid pressure. 5) TOXIC MS.

As for the current categories of Relapse/Remit and the various Progressive MS's, I don't believe these properly describe the problem and certainly don't point to a solution. The various immunosuppressive drugs developed since 1990 are used only for the Relapse/Remit phase, so once you've hit the Progressive stage, you might as well listen to alternative ideas.
CONGENITAL: This idea is favoured by Phlebologists and Dr. Sclafani. However, it doesn’t account for the epidemiological variations in geography, culture or gender. It certainly can’t explain the dramatic increase in Japanese MS cases over the past 30 years. However, obviously it can be one factor.
DEVELOPMENTAL: My beginning hypothesis was that stress (of many potential origins) damages the veins in the child's developing body so that once adult the veins can no longer accommodate the blood flow. Defects in the circulatory system impede if not outright block blood flow leading from the brain and spinal cord leading to MS "attacks" and subsequent paralysis. It is for this reason that MS first generally manifests during or after adolescence. Dr. Zamboni himself observed deformities in the veins in the back and neck of MS patients. These areas correspond to Acupuncture meridians which control blood/fluid circulation.
AGING MS: The third type develops with age. There is no reason why veins shouldn't harden and malfunction as a part of the aging process. When the valves in veins draining the central nervous system malfunction, blood backs up to injure the myelin sheath.

THE ANGIOPLASTY CURE has been suggested for these types of MS (Congenital, Developmental, Aging) characterized by varied vein malformations - stenosed (narrowed), twisted, exhibiting stuck or deformed valves, or just plain missing. The Italian phlebologist Dr. Zamboni launched the theory he named CCSVI. The treatment consists of threading a catheter through the affected vein and opening it with a “balloon” . Initially the Internal Jugular Veins, the Vertebral Veins and the Chest Azygos vein were treated. Other veins leading from the spinal cord are now treated as well. Development of the Intravenous Ultrasound has allowed Interventional Radiologists to see what is going on inside the vein, determine the appropriate size of the balloon to open the stenosed vein without scarring, and avoid various complications. Stents have been inserted into veins which collapsed after being opened. (Dr. Sclafani believes the early 50% failure rate in the Jugular vein angioplasty occurred because the balloons were too small to open the veins sufficiently.) However, if the balloon is too large it risks scarring the vein lining tissue (endothelium) which might lead to thrombosis – the vein being closed off entirely. There have been cases where, after the initial “liberation”, the vein closes off again and each subsequent intervention leads to more scarring and tissue damage. Some have experienced little if any improvement. (Not all the veins leading from the spinal cord are treated.) Some have found themselves in a worse condition after the angioplasty than before. (One woman reported that her veins shriveled up into useless dried out structures through which no blood could flow.) Risks include brain hemorrhage, blood clots, and stent migration into the heart. Presumably with experience and the development of new techniques and material the few early tragedies which have occurred can be avoided. (Already use of the IntravenousUltrasound has decreased the risk factor dramatically.)
Some have reported dramatic recoveries, often with stents inserted, at least 2 years after Angioplasty. They have been CURED. (I don’t know the longest post operative success story. Treatments began sometime in 2009.) The lives of some have been so transformed that they now wonder if they should declare themselves free of MS and therefore ineligible for disability benefits.

Nonetheless, while some have been apparently cured, the risks of angioplasty are real. Before rushing into the operating theater, consider first treatment of Types 4) SKELETAL and 5) TOXIC MS.

SKELETAL MS: A misaligned skeletal, bone or dental structure can actually restrict the free flow of cerebrospinal fluid which in turn can compress or impede venous blood circulation. Structural problems can be either congenital or developmental in origin (e.g. accidents.) Recent scientific studies have focused on the interdependent dynamic of brain "fluids", the blood and the cerebrospinal fluid (CBF) which bathes the Central Nervous System. Excess cerebrospinal fluid can actually "compress" or limit blood circulation, hence the interest of Chiropractors in adjusting the Atlas bone to assure proper CBF circulation. If the problem is SKELETAL, angioplasty would not be appropriate. In this case it is not a problem INSIDE the vein but OUTSIDE. Chiropractic, Osteopathic or Dental adjustment may suffice to release the brain fluids flow leading to CURE or CONTROL.

FINALLY THERE IS TOXIC MS.
I include in this category not only known toxins such as mercury in dental amalgams, aspartame, glutens and various food intolerances, but myriad microbes/viruses such as mononucleosis, epstein barr, chlamydia, lyme as well as various metabolic disorders such as toxic "gut" and diabetes. OK that's a big category. One might say I am being simplistic. BUT MAYBE IT IS JUST THAT SIMPLE. Whatever stresses the body in those individuals with a compromised vascular system may trigger the blood reflux into the CNS. Illness in childhood may damage the vascular system, stress including toxic stress may trigger the reflux. Toxicity itself may damage the veins. All these factors may stress the vascular system leading to a venous blood reflux. Detoxification, intestinal cleansing, and appropriate nutrition will reduce pressure on the vascular system as well as nurture the brain and heal nerve damage.
CURE: Some MS patients recover through diet cleansing and nutritional therapy alone. Some may have a "temporary" stress reaction to a toxic substance such as aspartame (or mercury in dental almagam fillings.) The reaction is "temporary" in the sense that once the toxin is removed, the MS symptoms disappear. I have even heard that removing glutens from the diet is sufficient to heal.
CONTROL: Dr. Terry Wahls (see You Tube Minding Your Mitochondria) presents another excellent example. She began her treatment by de-toxifying from the MS drugs which were poisoning her and then optimized her nutrition. Her recovery implies that her veins were not actually blocked, but tensed up enough to cause a reflux. Also, she stimulated her blood circulation by electrical stimulation of the bands of muscles on her back, in other words, the bladder meridian. Optimal Diet/Supplements serve two purposes. 1) to prevent stress on the vascular system which might lead to blood reflux and 2) heal damaged tissue.

In addition to nutritional therapy, most MS patients probably will require treatment to enhance blood circulation to prevent blood refluxes – massage, ayervedic massage, acupuncture, self acupressure, osteopathy, chiropractic, swimming.

Again, to make a long story short, Dr. Zamboni has discovered the problem – venous blood reflux or CCSVI – but not the sole solution. Detoxification and nutritional therapy coupled with circulation therapies and/or skeletal adjustments may suffice without taking the risk of angioplasty."

MS Cure Enigmas.net
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Re: When CCSVI fails, try AO and/or the Dentist

Postby JeanDeEau » Sun Mar 31, 2013 7:51 am

Yeah, yeah, yeah.
If it is not permanent, it is not a cure, only a treatment.
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Re: When CCSVI fails, try AO and/or the Dentist

Postby vesta » Sun Mar 31, 2013 7:57 am

For some it is permanent and it is a cure, especially if the cause was stenosed veins which have been opened and stay open. If a skeletal adjustment opens CSF flow, that may cure the patient. For some it is a question of finding a way to control the disease. You are quibbling over semantics and if these ideas don't interest you, ignore them and go your own happy way.
Last edited by vesta on Sun Mar 31, 2013 9:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: When CCSVI fails, try AO and/or the Dentist

Postby Rosegirl » Sun Mar 31, 2013 8:08 am

After Wednesday being such a fabulous day, I tried an experiment. For three days, I only used the tissue method 3 times a day for 30 minutes each. Although I was still doing better than before the Aqualizer/tissue days, I was much stiffer and slower. Walking without holding on was once again impossible.

This morning, I have used the tissue method for 30 minutes and then the Aqualizer for about 90 minutes so far, and I'm already moving much more smoothly.

Dr. Williams did say to use both the Aqualizer and the tissues, and, at least in my case, that seems to be the best. So it's back to the Aqualizer, too, for up to 10 hours a day (or overnight if it's comfortable for you to do that).
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Re: When CCSVI fails, try AO and/or the Dentist

Postby JeanDeEau » Sun Mar 31, 2013 3:24 pm

Vesta, you are the one who is quibbling over semantics.
Yes, a cure has to be permanent.
So what comes up on each and every MS forum is a string of Wonder Cures.
Eat this, take that, have this treatment, yada, yada,yada.
None of them ever allow for remission.
None of the DMDs claim to cure MS, just to hold it back a little.
The new claims for Campath are that it will hold MS back for more than a little, but not as a cure.
What we do see is that so many people have had treatment for CCSVI, and then had to have it done over, and done over again. That is no cure.
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Re: When CCSVI fails, try AO and/or the Dentist

Postby Rosegirl » Sun Mar 31, 2013 3:36 pm

Of course, this forum is open to all, but could we please confine comments on this thread to ones about atlas orthogonal and dental treatments?

If you start another thread about the expanded topics you have been discussing, it will be easier for folks interested in them to find your comments.
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Re: When CCSVI fails, try AO and/or the Dentist

Postby vesta » Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:59 am

Well said. From whom (Dentist? Chiropractor? Other?) did you obtain the Aqualizer? I'm in France and may have trouble finding it. Does it require a personal adjustment? Thanks
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Re: When CCSVI fails, try AO and/or the Dentist

Postby JeanDeEau » Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:08 am

It was my impression that the whole principle of the Aqualizer was that it was self adjusting.
Why dont you ask the distributors in France
MESCAN
13 Avenue de l’Europe
78130 Les Mureaux
www.mescan.com
contact@mescan.com
011 33 130 99 80 47
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Re: When CCSVI fails, try AO and/or the Dentist

Postby Rosegirl » Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:39 am

For information on the Aqualizer, I just did a search and found the following:

http://www.aqualizer.com/ They also have a page that tells you where you can buy them that includes some international sites.

I bought one Aqualizer from Dental Depot (link below - about $35US with shipping) and tried it for a while. My dentist recommended another, much more expensive, appliance made that would take weeks to deliver, but he said I could use an Aqualizer even with the new appliance. I assumed that the original Aqualizer wouldn’t last long so I ordered six more since there was a price break. (http://www.dentaldepot.com/category/AQU ... _HEADACHES)

It’s been a few weeks and the Aqualizer by itself gave me some noticeable improvements. So did the tissue trick. Using them both during the day gave much better results. My dentist said I could use the Aqualizer for up to 10 hours during the day because it was uncomfortable to sleep with it, although using it at night might be more convenient.

The original one is still in fine shape, but I’m glad I ordered more because my AO/NUCCA chiropractor has agreed with me that I’ve gotten so much improvement that it makes sense to keep doing the Aqualizer/tissue method. We’ll see if does enough good to save me from spending $2,000-10,000 for a custom appliance.
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Re: When CCSVI fails, try AO and/or the Dentist

Postby dania » Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:53 am

I have been doing it 4 days. It helps me. No longer in pain from contracted muscles as it has relaxed them. Some 100%, some less. That MS hug is almost gone. I can take in more air into my lungs, breathing easier. YEAH!!!!!!!. My biggest complaint. Typing with both hands, now. I can feel heat on my hands and feet again, I was burning myself with hot water. I can move my head from side to side. Before I was only able to move it 1inch, right and left. I can now lift a utensil from my plate to my lips. A lot more strength, all over. I know this sounds crazy but it is definitely helping. There are so many other little things to numerous to mention, that it is helping. As the day wears on, I do get weaker. I sleep in my recliner and wear my dental tray all night.
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Re: When CCSVI fails, try AO and/or the Dentist

Postby Rosegirl » Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:50 am

Oh, Dania, I am so happy for you! Less pain is wonderful and being able to breath must seem like a miracle.

You've certainly come a long way in four days. Give yourself a chance to rebuild some muscle strength. In my case, the improvements come and go and then come back later. It's very annoying never to know if a set of muscles will be working when I need them. But it's early in the process, so I'm pretending to be patient.
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Re: When CCSVI fails, try AO and/or the Dentist

Postby dania » Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:20 pm

With me, I become less abled in the afternoon with the rise of my body temperature. So morning, evening and night are the best times. My little trick to have more strength is to drink a glass filled completely with ice and then add water, wait a few minutes to let it get really cold. Drink it, hold each mouthful in your mouth for as long as you can stand it, swallow and repeat until the glass is empty. I do this when I have problems standing to transfer myself.
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Re: When CCSVI fails, try AO and/or the Dentist

Postby vesta » Tue Apr 02, 2013 11:43 am

Thanks much for the Aqualizer info. I doubt I would ever had heard of it without this thread.

Actually, I think one should try AO and/or the Dentist BEFORE trying CCSVI angioplasty.
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