When CCSVI fails, try AO and/or the Dentist

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Re: When CCSVI fails, try AO and/or the Dentist

Postby dania » Sat Apr 06, 2013 12:24 pm

Ok, so here is what I know now. I have TMJ! Was totally unaware I had this. It was when I started putting the dental tray in my mouth for the night that I realized I was waking up and I was clenching my jaw, fiercely. I have been paying more attention to my jaw and I do catch myself clenching it and even chewing without food. I can not open my mouth very wide and when I do I get a clicking sound on my left side. I had a bilateral jugular vein bypass and a nerve on the right side of my face was cut and I can no longer move the bottom right lip correctly. And if you run your hand down my left cheek to the bottom of my jaw and do the same on the on the right side you will notice that my bottom jaw is sticking out more to the left. My right side neck muscles are so contracted. This came about immediately after my bypass surgery. And my condition has declined considerably since the surgery.
TMJ does explain a lot of my symptoms. All the contracted muscles. That is my biggest one. The inability to sit straight, pressure in my right ear, etc.
Now...what caused the TMJ?
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Re: When CCSVI fails, try AO and/or the Dentist

Postby blossom » Sat Apr 06, 2013 3:46 pm

http://www.thetmjsleepcenter.com/what-c ... rders.html

http://www.aaoms.org/tmj.php

http://www.nidcr.nih.gov/oralhealth/pop ... disorders/

dania, following here at tims you and i are the only2 that the tilting of the head and positioning caused relief or worsening of symptoms. there may be more i'm not aware. i would not doubt that you also have cervical bone spurs "possibly on the front which is motor" and stenosis. but keeping with tmj, my jaw feels like i have pressure built up in the jaw joints something like tight little air bubbles. nucca did take the cracking away. but, along with a lot of the possible causes of tmj listed above i could be amongst many of them. the most prominate was the fall i took.and that's when my trip to hell began. but that's me. not saying there aren't other factors that can come into play. but for sure bad blood and csf flow would make a better enviroment for viruses bacteria etc. to take hold. let alone the flow much as a stagnant creek at times and at times like a heavy rain fall causeing different damage.

this whole tmj thing and spine thing reminds me if you can picture a well built building nice straight tall. then for whatever reason a chunk of bricks move or fall out the building still stands but then because the balance is off more pressure is put elsewhere but the building still stands, then because that is weakened the building starts to lean a little and start to be slightly twisted getting more on a bind. as all these structual things worsen then when let go and not repaired it starts to effect the wireing that could cause disconnects and also could effect the plumbing causeing limited or disrupted flow. until finally the building is barely standing or functioning.

the best way to have prevented all this would have been to have fixed the first problem right away. now we have to hope that to keep the building from falling that each qualifed contractor get their heads together and work together and carefully examine and decide the best plan and steps to take to get this once straight functioning building back to some kind of normal.

it would take a lot of time, a lot of money and some of the very best contractors getting together and spending the needed time money and energy. finding qualified careing and willing knowledgeable to take the time needed.----------it's tough enough to get this together for this building-----------------for us who i'd think it should be more important but alas it has not been.

there are individual dr.'s that got the idea and are trying. we need a team to win the game.

"trying to keep my jaw relaxed as i type this---but the way this thing named ms has been addressed for way too long makes it hard not to cleench my teeth" :-W !!
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Re: When CCSVI fails, try AO and/or the Dentist

Postby Amir » Sat Apr 06, 2013 10:36 pm

This is a very helpful article from Dr Mercola.

Oral Myofacial Therapy—A Breakthrough Technique to Treat Symptoms Relating to Breathing Problems, TMJ, Headaches and Other Common Ailments

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/artic ... n=20130407
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Re: When CCSVI fails, try AO and/or the Dentist

Postby blossom » Sun Apr 07, 2013 12:19 am

quote from the above article:

"Each person is like a snowflake, they’re different"


SO SO TRUE.
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Re: When CCSVI fails, try AO and/or the Dentist

Postby dania » Sun Apr 07, 2013 7:41 am

THANK YOU AMIR!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That video just revealed another piece to the puzzle for my particular case.
In March 2012 had a Bilateral Jugular vein transplant in which a nerve to my muscles in my face was severed. It was obvious as the right side of my bottom lip does not work any more. Very evident when I smile. Since that surgery my condition has further declined. I suspect the nerve damage only made my problem more complicated. I believe it lead to TMJ or made it worse.
Again a big TY.
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Re: When CCSVI fails, try AO and/or the Dentist

Postby Amir » Sun Apr 07, 2013 9:20 am

dania wrote: I believe it lead to TMJ or made it worse.


Experience shows that TMJ dysfunction is ALWAYS present in all 'MS' diagnosed cases!
In other words TMJ dysfunction very likely resulted in 'MS' or 'RSD' type symptoms.
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Re: When CCSVI fails, try AO and/or the Dentist

Postby dania » Sun Apr 07, 2013 9:39 am

Dr Flanagan reviewed my upright MRI and this is what he said.

Dania,
As per you permission, and thanks to Dr. Rosa for his study and for sending them, I have reviewed you upright cine scans but I haven't seen you axial scans yet as there were problems in sending them.

What stands out the most to me is the excess cervical lordosis, which I suspect is probably associated with some excess thoracic kyphosis. I say suspect because the image cuts off at the upper thoracics. I did meet you briefly, however, before you got scanned and have a pretty good picture of your condition. I have x-ray vision. Abnormal curves in the spine cause tension and compression strains in the dura of the cord. They also alter the normal alignment of the spine and strain the musculoskeletal system, which can affect the underlying nervous system and blood and CSF flow in the spinal canal. CSF flow in the spinal canal, especially the cervical canal affects blood and CSF flow in the cranial vault and brain. Sluggish blood and CSF flow in the spinal canal can affect tissue health and increase pressure on the cord that shows up as sensory and motor deficits, as well as lesions.

Adults can acquire abnormal curvatures in their backs from injuries, osteoporosis and aging. Patients with neurological weaknesses and those who are wheelchair bound can also acquire abnormal curves in the spine.

I feel like an onion, did angioplasties, jugular vein bypass surgeries. AO adjustments, which has lead me to TMJ/cervical lordosis/
Orofacial myofunctional therapy. Now for the big questions, what do I do next, who do I see, can any of this be treated?
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Re: When CCSVI fails, try AO and/or the Dentist

Postby Rosegirl » Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:23 am

On the subject of positional symptoms:

One of the benefits of having my atlas adjusted is that I no longer have hot flashes when changing positions between lying down and standing up. Anytime I had been lying down for more than an hour, I’d have a hot flash within about 5 minutes of rising. And if it was during a bathroom visit during the night, I’d have another within a few minutes of lying down again. That doesn’t happen anymore.


Another thing that doesn't happen -- when I first laid down, my legs would become very stiff and my knees wouldn't bend for a few minutes. It was really hard to get comfortable. Now my legs bend fairly easily and my muscles are stronger. Most of that improvement happened after I started the Aqualizer and tissues.
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Re: When CCSVI fails, try AO and/or the Dentist

Postby blossom » Mon Apr 08, 2013 11:16 pm

amir wrote:"Experience shows that TMJ dysfunction is ALWAYS present in all 'MS' diagnosed cases!
In other words TMJ dysfunction very likely resulted in 'MS' or 'RSD' type symptoms.
"

dr. amir, the first few yrs. i was first diag. with rsd. then it was back and forth-rsd? ms? then being told i probably had both-then back to probable ms--to they just say ms. my connection to trauma and my symptoms were very evident to me but was always ignored by neuro.'s. "except the first one that diag. rsd." but, he and none to this day would connect the dots as i felt as far as spurs in cervical and other spinal issues--and i even told them how after the fall i devloped tmj and how bad i began to snore which i did not do before. it just fell on deaf ears.

thank you dr. amir for being here and shareing and helping connect the dots. just finding those qualified to treat and able to get to is hard.

would you mind giving an opinion on this type dentist i will link below. would this be a dentist qualified to help tmj? doesn't mean anything personally toward him--but is this a first step?

http://www.pittsburghaestheticsmiles.co ... tristy.php
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Re: When CCSVI fails, try AO and/or the Dentist

Postby civickiller » Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:25 am

link doesnt work for me, anyone else
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Re: When CCSVI fails, try AO and/or the Dentist

Postby kitminden » Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:35 am

Nope, doesn't work for me, either.
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Re: When CCSVI fails, try AO and/or the Dentist

Postby Amir » Tue Apr 09, 2013 1:21 am

blossom wrote:
amir wrote:"Experience shows that TMJ dysfunction is ALWAYS present in all 'MS' diagnosed cases!
In other words TMJ dysfunction very likely resulted in 'MS' or 'RSD' type symptoms."

dr. amir, the first few yrs. i was first diag. with rsd. then it was back and forth-rsd? ms? then being told i probably had both-then .back to probable ms--to they just say ms. my connection to trauma and my symptoms were very evident to me but was always ignored by neuro.'s. "except the first one that diag. rsd." but, he and none to this day would connect the dots as i felt as far as spurs in cervical and other spinal issues--and i even told them how after the fall i devloped tmj and how bad i began to snore which i did not do before. it just fell on deaf ears.

I came across RSD only a week or so ago when I was reading a magazine which mentioned Paula Abdul's illness and how DMD's were now helping her. My curiosity lead me to understand a bit more about Reflex Sympathetic Dystrophy (RSD)

Obviously I found it rather shocking.

No Brain lesion = RSD = DMT's!

If a brain lesion surfaces = MS = DMT's

The injury the patient suffered at the outset is left behind in the distant past and yet it continues to play a key role in the symptoms that patients continue to suffer from.

If a patient has dental/Atlas/Hip asymmetries but is well and does not suffer any ill health; it soon changes if subjected to a neck injury. The injury does not heal until the other asymmetries are corrected.

On this thread the patients are FINALLY attending to what should have been attended to at the outset and hence they are getting relief - in spite of the brain lesions.
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Re: When CCSVI fails, try AO and/or the Dentist

Postby dania » Tue Apr 09, 2013 6:33 am

Good link Blossom. It is becoming clearer, at least in my case, that my problems are related to my spine/jaw etc.There is a misalignment that I think is causing all my symptoms. My symptoms change when I change my position, And that change occurs in a second.
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Re: When CCSVI fails, try AO and/or the Dentist

Postby jimmylegs » Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:00 am

drawing some lines between stress-type tension, muscle tension, and joint dysfunction. one study from 1965, one from 2011. (arg, witness the evolution of the scientific diplomacy filter)

Masticatory muscle hyperactivity and temporomandibular joint dysfunction
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 1365901885
1. There was repeated confirmation by observation of the relationship of bruxism to a general background of emotional disturbance and nervous tension. Psychoneurotic disturbances are known to have a similar age-sex distribution as temporomandibular joint pain-dysfunction complaints.
2. Menstruation with its attendant emotional conflicts is of significance in the etiology of joint dysfunction in women.
3. The close parity of incidence of emotional tension and/or bruxism in the three groups, men, single women, and married women, supported the method of investigation.
4. Morning stiffness and mucosal ridging along the occlusal line of the posterior teeth are suggested as useful clinical guides to the bruxism habit.
5. The lateral pterygoid muscle appeared clinically to be the one most commonly involved in temporomandibular joint dysfunction.
6. Tooth faceting, which has been related to bruxism, was more common on the side of dysfunction and corresponded to the side favored in sleep. The incidence of tooth contact was found to be more common in side-lying positions.

Breathing and temporomandibular joint disease
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 9210000902
Temporomandibular joint disease (TMD) refers to a collection of pain related conditions in the masticatory muscles and temporomandibular joint. Occlusal factors have been implicated in TMD pathogenesis, yet despite decades of research no causal relationship between occlusion and TMD has been found. The significance of psychosocial factors in both the assessment and the long-term management of patients with TMD is receiving increased recognition. The teaching of relaxation skills and coping strategies are effective, proven TMD therapies. The role of breathing re-education in temporomandibular joint (TMJ) disorders is rarely mentioned. A focus on breathing patterns and their disorders potentially explains how biomechanical factors associated with psychosocial influences might lead to pathophysiological changes within the TMJ as well as in the associated muscles. Attention to factors such as breathing and postural rehabilitation provides health professionals valuable, additional tools to help care for patients with TMD.

not suggesting breathing exercises, just noting the connection between stress and dysfunction.. my therapeutic approach to the problem would be different of course :)
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Re: When CCSVI fails, try AO and/or the Dentist

Postby blossom » Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:36 pm

I came across RSD only a week or so ago when I was reading a magazine which mentioned Paula Abdul's illness and how DMD's were now helping her. My curiosity lead me to understand a bit more about Reflex Sympathetic Dystrophy (RSD)

Obviously I found it rather shocking.

No Brain lesion = RSD = DMT's!

If a brain lesion surfaces = MS = DMT's

The injury the patient suffered at the outset is left behind in the distant past and yet it continues to play a key role in the symptoms that patients continue to suffer from.

If a patient has dental/Atlas/Hip asymmetries but is well and does not suffer any ill health; it soon changes if subjected to a neck injury. The injury does not heal until the other asymmetries are corrected.

On this thread the patients are FINALLY attending to what should have been attended to at the outset and hence they are getting relief - in spite of the brain lesions."

dr. amir, everything that is coming to light here at tims is such a verification to me and my case. as stated by me ever since i came to tims and also everywhere i went since this all started i went through the steps of what i felt had happened to me and trying to get help. i went to chiro.'s "but not the right kind" i went to a dentist and had a brace to help the grinding and tmj--i've had the nucca which helped the tmj some--i've gone to neurosurgeons to try to get them to remove the cervical spurs they would not "because of this stupid ms thing and they don't think that's my problem"--always i showed them physically how positioning effected my movement but all i got was a shrug. i had to deal pretty much local but you'd think pittsbusburg should be pretty savy but t doesn't matter if you go to top dog dr.'s and if they have blinders on - hear what they want to hear-and stick with the drug lords--i did not have a chance. i still stuck to my guns , never took a drug. kept plugging away what i could and continued getting worse-then when ccsvi came along and it said "trauma"could be a cause i went for it "bad choice" it did not help and the femoral nerve got injured and i came out with a numb leg which has gotten worse and added to my misery. so, here i am older, wheelchair bound and effected arms you name it.

you, and dr. flanagan have made more sence and understand and explain more than any of the so called specialists.

i have no brain lesions. i think there are some spinal 1 in the cervical. but, this thing called ms isn't the only thing that can cause lesions. after yrs. of not getting things addressed properely my spine is a train wreck.

also, positioning my head and neck especially tilting and looking up and getting better movement i would think changes pressure in the jaws also along with the spurs and cervical stenosis.

should i start from the bottom up in your opinion or where? if you even think due to age and severity anything will help at this point. i was never a quitter. also, the type of dentist i linked above-is he appropiate?

thank you again for being here. and, helping me as a patient verify what and how i've aways felt and that i'm not some nut case in denial as previous so called specialists tried to make me feel.
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