Can tiny renal veins be treated? Will an ultrasound KUB show

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Can tiny renal veins be treated? Will an ultrasound KUB show

Postby dc10 » Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:57 pm

Hi,

When i was last liberated in 2011 the IR said my renal veins were tiny and couldnt be dilated

Well today i had an Ultrasound KUB to check my kidneys and I am kicking myself because i forgot to mention my tiny renal veins seen by an IR in a MR venogram

They said my kidneys were fine,
As i press my pubic mound to empty my bladder the urologist wanted to check my kidneys

I wanted to know if there is any treatment for tiny renal veins, i assume being tiny they are stenosed

Can an ultrasound KUB see the renal veins?

Im going to call the X-ray department tomorrow that done the ultrasound and see if they can see me again,
thats only if an ultrasound can see the renal veins., and if there is a treatment for tiny renal veins

thanks
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Re: Can tiny renal veins be treated? Will an ultrasound KUB

Postby Cece » Wed Jun 12, 2013 2:51 pm

dc10 wrote:I wanted to know if there is any treatment for tiny renal veins, i assume being tiny they are stenosed

A stenosed vein is a vein with some sort of blockage or narrowing, and it should be able to be dilatated if the blockage is within the vein or stented if the compression is from outside the vein. A tiny vein however might be a small vein with no blockage. It's been discussed here that an IR could attempt to increase the size of hypoplastic jugular veins by ballooning them through gradual maturation but I don't know if this has been tried on renal veins. If there were kidney disease, and it could be determined to be caused by the impaired venous drainage, a larger vein could be grafted in to replace the tiny vein but that's a major operation.

Let's see
http://www.komci.org/GSResult.php?RID=1 ... .1.67&DT=6
A Case of Renovascular Hypertension due to Renal Vein Hypoplasia


renal vein hypoplasia contributed to deep vein thrombosis
http://pdf.revespcardiol.org/watermark/ ... pdf001.pdf

Ah well that's the best I can do. Let us know if they're willing to rescan, and if they find anything that they can do anything about! It's the left renal vein that's implicated in CCSVI.
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Re: Can tiny renal veins be treated? Will an ultrasound KUB

Postby dc10 » Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:52 am

Thanks cece,

When checking my kidneys with the ultrasound the Dr said my kidneys were fine,
Would this indicate that my renal veins are fine/fully functional too, despite being tiny?

Im very annoyed at myself for forgetting to ask her to check my IJVs and renal vein, but im not sure if she would have checked as it is the NHS and CCSVI is probably something they stay clear of.

I guess even if she did see stenosis in the renal vein or IJVs i wouldnt want to be liberated for a fourth time, the improvements aren't sustainable, for me anyway
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Re: Can tiny renal veins be treated? Will an ultrasound KUB

Postby dlynn » Fri Jun 14, 2013 7:46 am

hi dc10,
After reading your last reply, it sounded a little similar to my experience. My urologist ordered an US of my kidneys.
He said they are fine. Then during my 4th CCSVI procedure, my Dr. checked my pelvic and renal veins, he found issues with both but did not treat them. Although my renal vein wasn't tiny, it was compressed. This past December I had them treated. Stents were placed in my left renal vein. Do you have any symptoms?
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Re: Can tiny renal veins be treated? Will an ultrasound KUB

Postby dc10 » Sat Jun 15, 2013 2:48 am

Hi Dyno,

I have MS symptoms = mobility (legs strength/balance/stiffness), bladder (Frequency/urgency/control), weight loss, vision (short sighted, nystagmus)

Could these be caused b tiny, possibly stenosed/compressed renal veins?

Have any of your MS symptoms improved since you had the stents?
are there still risks with stent migration?
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Re: Can tiny renal veins be treated? Will an ultrasound KUB

Postby dlynn » Sat Jun 15, 2013 6:36 am

Hi dc10,
I originally sought treatment for my Renal vein because of "flank pain" that began about 5-6 years ago. With each year the pain grew
worse. Fatigue is one symptom of Renal Vein Compression Syndrome, which I had (still have occasionally). I no longer have the intense, nauseating "flank pain". I did not notice any improvement in my ms symptoms. I was hoping to get some relief from leg pain and weakness, but I did not. I'm extremely pleased with the results of the Renal vein procedure. For my ms symptoms, the CCSVI procedures
were the only treatments that alleviated my ms symptoms. And yes, there is always a chance of migrating stents. At one month post procedure, I had an Xray that showed my stents were still in place. There is more blood flow through the renal vein than a JV so less chance of clotting. I'm very happy with my decision, it's a very personal one that took a lot of research and thought. And a wonderful Dr.
I hope this helps.
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Re: Can tiny renal veins be treated? Will an ultrasound KUB

Postby drsclafani » Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:56 am

I would not rely upon a mr venogram to assess renal veins, although collaterals such as large gonadal veins might be detected. Ultrasound can often show the compressed vein but ivus is my far the best way to asses this.

I agree w dlynn that sometimes treatment of the renal vein obstruction does not improve symptoms of ccsvi but in othdr patients it is a tremendous benefit.
Salvatore JA Sclafani MD
Patient contact: ccsviliberation@gmail.com
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Re: Can tiny renal veins be treated? Will an ultrasound KUB

Postby dlynn » Mon Jun 17, 2013 7:55 am

dc10,
On page 463 of Dr. Sclafanis' thread, I've asked many of the questions you have. I believe you will find this very helpful.
I've based my decision on his knowledge regarding Renal vein issues.
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Re: Can tiny renal veins be treated? Will an ultrasound KUB

Postby Cece » Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:20 am

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Re: Can tiny renal veins be treated? Will an ultrasound KUB

Postby dlynn » Mon Jun 17, 2013 1:22 pm

Cece,
thanks for providing the link!
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Re: Can tiny renal veins be treated? Will an ultrasound KUB

Postby dc10 » Fri Jun 21, 2013 5:11 am

thank you everyone for sharing,

i spoke to my GP and requested an US to check my renal veins to which he said an US can't check the renal veins, how true is this?

i got US KUB authorised (again), so i intend to ask the radioligist to check my IJVs and renal veins at the same time, any tips on how i should go about this?

this is being done on the NHS in the UK, so i was hoping to get my IJVs checked as well, but doubt they will

Also in the Dr S thread he says the symptoms of problems with the renal veins " include fatigue, imbalance, pelvic pain, rectal pain, hematuria, proteinuria, hypertension, pelvic variose veins,"

Now as i dont have these symptoms (besides bad balance), would this indicate my renl veins function correctly and if they are compressed, wouldn't benefit from stenting?>
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Re: Can tiny renal veins be treated? Will an ultrasound KUB

Postby drsclafani » Fri Jun 21, 2013 10:41 am

dc10 wrote:thank you everyone for sharing,

i spoke to my GP and requested an US to check my renal veins to which he said an US can't check the renal veins, how true is this?

i got US KUB authorised (again), so i intend to ask the radioligist to check my IJVs and renal veins at the same time, any tips on how i should go about this?

this is being done on the NHS in the UK, so i was hoping to get my IJVs checked as well, but doubt they will

Also in the Dr S thread he says the symptoms of problems with the renal veins " include fatigue, imbalance, pelvic pain, rectal pain, hematuria, proteinuria, hypertension, pelvic variose veins,"

Now as i dont have these symptoms (besides bad balance), would this indicate my renl veins function correctly and if they are compressed, wouldn't benefit from stenting?>


There are several ultrasound findings of renal vein compression. VElocities can be measured and can show increase in velocity in the vein to the right of the compression of the left renal vein. ultrasound can also show a stenosis. However CT scan is superior in my belief. Dr Scholbach in Germany has an ultrasound technique that he claims is superior, but i believe that his experience is founded in children.

The typical and well established symptoms are listed above. However Alboukier has reported migraines, imbalance and other neurological symptoms. I have seen them as well. In my opinion and experience, high grade compression is seen more frequently in PwMS than in the general public

DrS
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Re: Can tiny renal veins be treated? Will an ultrasound KUB

Postby dc10 » Sat Jun 22, 2013 1:38 pm

thanks Dr S.
I will ask the radiologist to scan my renal veins while she is checking kidneys/urethra/bladder
Ill also ask her to scan my IJVs citing i've had angioplasty 3 times and am concerned, and hopefully she will be compassionate

but most Drs are very strict and if they aren't specifically asked to check these areas, they won't
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