Fibromyalgia and blood vessels

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Fibromyalgia and blood vessels

Postby MaggieMae » Mon Jun 24, 2013 6:04 pm

Just read this article. Wondering your thoughts.

http://guardianlv.com/2013/06/fibromyal ... ly-solved/
User avatar
MaggieMae
Family Elder
 
Posts: 380
Joined: Wed May 23, 2007 3:00 pm
Location: Pennsylvania

Advertisement

Re: Fibromyalgia and blood vessels

Postby PointsNorth » Mon Jun 24, 2013 9:08 pm

Yet another 'neurological' disease found to have vascular origins. Sounds familiar. 8)
Albany 2010. Brooklyn 2011
Calcitriol+D3 2013-
Hurry up and wait.
PointsNorth
Family Elder
 
Posts: 498
Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2006 3:00 pm
Location: LeftCoast Canada

Re: Fibromyalgia and blood vessels

Postby 1eye » Wed Jun 26, 2013 12:46 pm

Researchers have found the main source of pain in Fibromyalgia patients, and contrary to what many believe, it does not stem from the brain. The findings mark the end of a decades-old mystery about the disease, which many doctors believed was conjured in patients’ imaginations. The mystery of Fibromyalgia has left millions of sufferers searching for hope in pain medications. Up until recently, many physicians thought that the disease was “imaginary” or psychological, but scientists have now revealed that the main source of pain stems from a most unlikely place- excess blood vessels in the hand.

The discovery may lead to new treatments and perhaps even a total cure in the future, bringing relief to as many as 5 million Americans thought to have the disease. To solve the Fibromyalgia mystery, researchers zeroed in on the skin from the hand of one patient who had a lack of the sensory nerve fibers, causing a reduced reaction to pain. They then took skin samples from the hands of Fibromyalgia patients and were surprised to find an extremely excessive amount of a particular type of nerve fiber called arteriole-venule (AV) shunts.

Up until this point scientists had thought that these fibers were only responsible for regulating blood flow, and did not play any role in pain sensation, but now they’ve discovered that there is a direct link between these nerves and the widespread body pain that Fibromyalgia sufferers feel.

The breakthrough also could solve the lingering question of why many sufferers have extremely painful hands as well as other “tender points” throughout the body, and why cold weather seems to aggravate the symptoms. In addition to feeling widespread deep tissue pain, many Fibromyalgia patients also suffer from debilitating fatigue.

Neuroscientist Dr. Frank L. Rice explained: “We previously thought that these nerve endings were only involved in regulating blood flow at a subconscious level, yet here we had evidences that the blood vessel endings could also contribute to our conscious sense of touch… and also pain,” Rice said. “This mismanaged blood flow could be the source of muscular pain and achiness, and the sense of fatigue which are thought to be due to a build-up of lactic acid and low levels of inflammation fibromyalgia patients. This, in turn, could contribute to the hyperactivity in the brain.”


I wonder how common this is in CCSVI? Pain in the hands I am fairly familiar with, and I get hot hands long after I am out of the heat,
"Try - Just A Little Bit Harder" - Janis Joplin
CCSVI procedure Albany Aug 2010
'MS' is over - if you want it
Patients sans/without patience
User avatar
1eye
Family Elder
 
Posts: 2876
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2010 4:00 pm
Location: Kanata, Ontario, Canada

Re: Fibromyalgia and blood vessels

Postby Amir » Wed Jul 03, 2013 10:30 am

The article has been seriously misquoted. The actual finding is:

"In a small study of fibromyalgia patients, researchers found an “enormous increase” in sensory nerve fibers in the blood vessels of the skin on the patients’ palms. "

This finding however does not serve any purpose whatsoever. To build patients hopes on such flimsy observations is stupefying.

Most FM patients suffer from very poor blood flow in the extremities.

It is simply shameful that patient hopes can be hyped by such misquotations:

"findings which mark the end of a decades-old mystery about the disease"

Monumental rubbish.
User avatar
Amir
Family Elder
 
Posts: 202
Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2009 4:00 pm
Location: London UK

Re: Fibromyalgia and blood vessels

Postby esta » Wed Jul 03, 2013 2:50 pm

can i just say chronic Lyme disease.

Very political...UNDER YOUR SKIN is a very informative documentary.

there's so many roadblocks its mind boggling. the politics are as bad in canada as america. in america its two fold, the witch hunt against drs who help, plus insurance companies that refuse to cover this also. usually not till you're in. between the two it appears an up hill battle with us, as MS is also known to have begun this way, along with many other neurological diseases like parkinsons.
it's so controversial, its very hard to get tested. in canada the test is designed to fail, only one clinic in palo alto calif. is trusted, and a naturopath is the way to go, just don't take rejection, watch the documentary first.
cheers
PPMS. Liberated Katowice, Poland
06/05/10 angioplasty RJV-re-stenodsed
26/08/10 stent RJV
28/12/10 follow-up ultrasound intimal hyperplasia
User avatar
esta
Family Elder
 
Posts: 385
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 4:00 pm
Location: Summerland. BC Canada

Re: Fibromyalgia and blood vessels

Postby 1eye » Wed Jul 03, 2013 4:39 pm

Pain Med. 2013 Jun;14(6):895-915. doi: 10.1111/pme.12139. Epub 2013 May 20.
Excessive Peptidergic Sensory Innervation of Cutaneous Arteriole-Venule Shunts (AVS) in the Palmar Glabrous Skin of Fibromyalgia Patients: Implications for Widespread Deep Tissue Pain and Fatigue.
Albrecht PJ, Hou Q, Argoff CE, Storey JR, Wymer JP, Rice FL.
Source

Integrated Tissue Dynamics, LLC, Rensselaer, New York, USA; Center for Neuropharmacology & Neuroscience, Albany Medical College, Albany, New York, USA.
Abstract
OBJECTIVE:

To determine if peripheral neuropathology exists among the innervation of cutaneous arterioles and arteriole-venule shunts (AVS) in fibromyalgia (FM) patients.
SETTING:

Cutaneous arterioles and AVS receive a convergence of vasoconstrictive sympathetic innervation, and vasodilatory small-fiber sensory innervation. Given our previous findings of peripheral pathologies in chronic pain conditions, we hypothesized that this vascular location may be a potential site of pathology and/or serotonergic and norepinephrine reuptake inhibitors (SNRI) drug action.
SUBJECTS:

Twenty-four female FM patients and nine female healthy control subjects were enrolled for study, with 14 additional female control subjects included from previous studies. AVS were identified in hypothenar skin biopsies from 18/24 FM patient and 14/23 control subjects.
METHODS:

Multimolecular immunocytochemistry to assess different types of cutaneous innervation in 3 mm skin biopsies from glabrous hypothenar and trapezius regions.
RESULTS:

AVS had significantly increased innervation among FM patients. The excessive innervation consisted of a greater proportion of vasodilatory sensory fibers, compared with vasoconstrictive sympathetic fibers. In contrast, sensory and sympathetic innervation to arterioles remained normal. Importantly, the sensory fibers express α2C receptors, indicating that the sympathetic innervation exerts an inhibitory modulation of sensory activity.
CONCLUSIONS:

The excessive sensory innervation to the glabrous skin AVS is a likely source of severe pain and tenderness in the hands of FM patients. Importantly, glabrous AVS regulate blood flow to the skin in humans for thermoregulation and to other tissues such as skeletal muscle during periods of increased metabolic demand. Therefore, blood flow dysregulation as a result of excessive innervation to AVS would likely contribute to the widespread deep pain and fatigue of FM. SNRI compounds may provide partial therapeutic benefit by enhancing the impact of sympathetically mediated inhibitory modulation of the excess sensory innervation.

Wiley Periodicals, Inc.

PMID:
23691965
[PubMed - in process]


For a more friendly explanation: http://www.intidyn.com/Newsroom/article-0009.html

This is a press release based on a paper. Yes it is a small study but it actually verifies that there is something physically different about the skin of fibromyalgia sufferers, and that the condition is real, causing real pain. You would expect that a pain medication company would be excited about this. However they also attempt to explain any benefit coming from use of SSRIs. They are saying fibromyalgia is definitely not 'all in your head'.

They conclude pain in their extremities is caused by more dilation in capillaries of skin in their extremities, and more nerves to effect that, in this skin, as well as by the effect of 'AVS' or 'arterial-venous shunts'. These, depending on temperature and innervation, can send red blood to the veins, bypassing the surface when the skin needs to retain heat, and getting warmer blood to the surface when it has excess heat to radiate out. The nerves that control these 'shunts' are also said to cause pain.

These were microscopic findings.

As always, reading the paper would help, and I don't have a subscription. I think it is quite likely genuine, not 'monumental rubbish', any more than Dr. Zamboni's small study was. I may or may not suffer from it, but I think this may help me to know, once it is verified.
"Try - Just A Little Bit Harder" - Janis Joplin
CCSVI procedure Albany Aug 2010
'MS' is over - if you want it
Patients sans/without patience
User avatar
1eye
Family Elder
 
Posts: 2876
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2010 4:00 pm
Location: Kanata, Ontario, Canada

Re: Fibromyalgia and blood vessels

Postby PointsNorth » Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:16 pm

Esta, is this documentary available somewhere? Couldn't find on YouTube.

Thx,PN
Albany 2010. Brooklyn 2011
Calcitriol+D3 2013-
Hurry up and wait.
PointsNorth
Family Elder
 
Posts: 498
Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2006 3:00 pm
Location: LeftCoast Canada

Re: Fibromyalgia and blood vessels

Postby esta » Thu Jul 04, 2013 8:27 am

hi points north
it's knowledge network on the internet. once you're in it's under 'watch now'. each documentary is in alpha order from there.
PPMS. Liberated Katowice, Poland
06/05/10 angioplasty RJV-re-stenodsed
26/08/10 stent RJV
28/12/10 follow-up ultrasound intimal hyperplasia
User avatar
esta
Family Elder
 
Posts: 385
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 4:00 pm
Location: Summerland. BC Canada

Re: Fibromyalgia and blood vessels

Postby Amir » Thu Jul 04, 2013 10:23 am

1eye wrote:
I think it is quite likely genuine, not 'monumental rubbish',.


My comment was addressing the newspaper hype not the original research paper!
User avatar
Amir
Family Elder
 
Posts: 202
Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2009 4:00 pm
Location: London UK


Return to Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency (CCSVI)

 


  • Related topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users