Differences Between IJV and Vertebral vein flow

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Re: Differences Between IJV and Vertebral vein flow

Postby 1eye » Tue Aug 27, 2013 11:19 am

Contrary to what happens to the blood inflow, outflow in the supine position, through vertebral and internal jugular veins, is more than twice the outflow in the sitting position (739.80 ± 326.32 versus 278.24 ± 207.94 mL/min).


What they may be saying is that there isn't so big of a change in the inflow as there is in the VVs and IJs when going from upright to prone. That means we are missing a big piece of the outflow, on the order of the same size as them combined. That would be the other collateral veins, measured indirectly, but measured, by Dr. Zamboni.

I would make a table:

-------------------|----Jugulars----------|-----------Vertebrals----------|-----------Other collaterals
upright flow
prone flow
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Re: Differences Between IJV and Vertebral vein flow

Postby 1eye » Tue Aug 27, 2013 11:46 am

Why the correlation with age? Is the compensatory drainage less effective with age?

Maybe our capacity for angiogenesis declines, or maybe the compensatory drainage is sufficient but not needed so much after a certain age. It sounds like an interesting area for investigation.
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Re: Differences Between IJV and Vertebral vein flow

Postby 1eye » Tue Aug 27, 2013 11:51 am

I was just wondering: I have seen individual neck slices from MRV. Why would it not be able to see a stenosis, or malformed vein, by connecting slices the way 3D MRV is done? I guess on that scale you might need more Teslas.
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Re: Differences Between IJV and Vertebral vein flow

Postby Cece » Tue Aug 27, 2013 12:48 pm

1eye wrote:
Cece wrote:Ok that's a good abstract. "These findings could fundamentally change the diagnosis and treatment of thoracic outlet syndrome." Yup! I wonder if people with CCSVI could be diagnosed as people with thoracic outlet syndrome and treated for that without all the hoopla.
The author of the book "Rise and Shine", Simon Lewis, was treated for Thoracic Outlet Syndrome. It consisted of removal of the first rib. I think PTA sounds easier.

Yeah major surgery vs angioplasty. Rib removal would always be an option if angioplasty was tried and was not effective.
CONCLUSIONS: Internal jugular vein stenosis is common in patients with thoracic outlet symptoms and percutaneous treatment provides benefit to some patients. These findings could fundamentally change the diagnosis and treatment of thoracic outlet syndrome. Further studies are warranted.


These guys should talk to Drs. Zamboni & Sclafani.

ISNVD is in San Francisco this year, but maybe the TOS researchers are not aware of it?
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