retinal venules

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

retinal venules

Postby Cece » Mon Nov 04, 2013 10:31 am

http://www.sci-news.com/othersciences/p ... od-iq.html
“It’s remarkable that venular caliber in the eye is related, however modestly, to mental test scores of individuals in their 30s, and even to IQ scores in childhood,” Dr Idan Shalev and colleagues said.

The findings suggest that the processes linking vascular health and cognitive functioning begin much earlier than previously assumed, years before the onset of dementia and other age-related declines in brain functioning.

The current study doesn’t address the specific mechanisms that drive the relationship between retinal vessels and cognitive functioning, but the researchers surmise that it may have to do with oxygen supply to the brain.

original research link http://pss.sagepub.com/content/24/7/1198

Wider retinal venules linked to lower IQ scores, both as adults and retrospectively in childhood.
It's another link between venous drainage of the eye or brain and cognitive functioning.
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Re: retinal venules

Postby DrDiana » Mon Nov 04, 2013 9:51 pm

Cece wrote:http://www.sci-news.com/othersciences/psychology/article01130-eye-blood-iq.html
“It’s remarkable that venular caliber in the eye is related, however modestly, to mental test scores of individuals in their 30s, and even to IQ scores in childhood,” Dr Idan Shalev and colleagues said.

The findings suggest that the processes linking vascular health and cognitive functioning begin much earlier than previously assumed, years before the onset of dementia and other age-related declines in brain functioning.

The current study doesn’t address the specific mechanisms that drive the relationship between retinal vessels and cognitive functioning, but the researchers surmise that it may have to do with oxygen supply to the brain.

original research link http://pss.sagepub.com/content/24/7/1198

Wider retinal venules linked to lower IQ scores, both as adults and retrospectively in childhood.
It's another link between venous drainage of the eye or brain and cognitive functioning.

Hey, Cece,
Blast from the past here (I was answering a private message, and couldn't help but notice this!). I *think* it is much more complicated than this, so if you have some large venules on your fundus, don't lose heart! (I have some!). In one of the clinical trials I ran, I saw dilated venules in dysautonomia, but only the SUPERIOR venules were dilated! Even more interesting, EDS/dysautonomia patients tend to be highly intelligent and off the scale in creativity. Most have a sort of Savant Syndrome. Of course, in Alzheimer's, we tend to see large venules in conjunction with small arterioles. THAT is a bad combo!

As a general statement, I would agree with the published article, but when being 'surgically precise', I believe it is much more complicated (and encouraging) than that! ;)
(How do you FIND these things, anyway?)

Keep the faith! ;)
Dr. Diana

Special interest in "brain drains" and how they affect numerous conditions, including MS, Ehlers-Danlos, Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, etc. I am a therapeutic optometrist on professional disability with EDS, POTS, CCSVI, mast cell disea
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Re: retinal venules

Postby Cece » Tue Nov 05, 2013 6:08 am

It does seem complicated, and as always I am thrilled to have an expert weigh in.
I get daily Medpage emails, I think that's where this article turned up. :)

Here's an image showing how retinal blood vessels are measured. The blue ones would be the venules.
http://circimaging.ahajournals.org/cont ... .large.jpg
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Re: retinal venules

Postby DrDiana » Tue Nov 05, 2013 10:36 am

Cece wrote:It does seem complicated, and as always I am thrilled to have an expert weigh in.
I get daily Medpage emails, I think that's where this article turned up. :)

Here's an image showing how retinal blood vessels are measured. The blue the ones would be the venules.
http://circimaging.ahajournals.org/cont ... .large.jpg


Awesome pic, Cece! I DO think the vascular changes in the fundus are (usually) reflective of systemic vascular changes, which makes the fundus such an awesome thing to study! And you likely remember, I'm a big believer in many of our problems being due to enlarged veins... ;)

If you look closely at the pic you attached, you'll be able to see why we are less likely to be able to judge arteriole "size" than venule size. Do you see the arteriole that goes across 11:30? See how the center (the lumen) looks whitish? That is likely atherosclerosis, which can slow or limit the flow of oxygenated blood. We can't really effectively measure the arterioles without considering the 'true' size of the lumen, which these photos can't reveal, unfortunately. It's much easier to do with veins. I know you all understand the Kellie Monroe Doctrine and if our fluid dynamics are unbalanced, we have to look at venous size and flow, arterial size and flow, and (in the brain) CSF pressure and flow -- otherwise we can freak out if we just look at any one aspect. ;)

In order to help 'figure out' M.S., I had to step away from evaluating the fundi of M.S. patients. Once sheathing occurs, we can't tell what the heck is going on with fluid dynamics. Even symptoms you experience can be discombobulated by demyelination ("is the symptom due to 'X' which is easily corrected, or is it secondary to demyelination"). So I revert to related conditions which do not (yet) show demyelination, then see if these problems may be masked by demyelination. Or worse, do doctors just assume the symptoms are from demyelination, missing the treatable conditions... Does that make any sense?

OK, getting off tangent! Back to work -- thank you for letting me jump in, sort of unannounced! ;)
Dr. Diana

Special interest in "brain drains" and how they affect numerous conditions, including MS, Ehlers-Danlos, Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, etc. I am a therapeutic optometrist on professional disability with EDS, POTS, CCSVI, mast cell disea
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