vasoconstrictors, vasodilators

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

vasoconstrictors, vasodilators

Postby zap » Tue May 19, 2009 12:13 pm

(I started a discussion about this in the Remission thread, but thought it probably warrants its own thread.)

Assuming there is some truth to the CCSVI paradigm, our brains and spinal cords are damaged when veins narrow down enough to create backflow/pressure.

While much of the stenoses (narrowing/blockages) are likely to be present from birth, it does seem likely that various things can make the problem worse and bring on relapses.

I don't expect to have the stent surgery done anytime soon, but I would like to do my part to avoid damaging myself further - and assume others following this research would feel the same.

Toward that end, I'd like to have a discussion about vasoconstrictors & vasodilators - what substances and activities can either contract or expand the blood vessels.

Here is a basic starting point for both:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasoconstriction

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasodilation
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Postby cheerleader » Tue May 19, 2009 12:33 pm

Hey Zap...
Here's a thread from last year- before you joined up.
http://www.thisisms.com/ftopict-6318.html
I put together a program for my husband based on the observation that his blood was hypercoagulated, with high SED rate and inflammation numbers at the time of his diagnosing flare. The doctors told me it had nothing to do with his MS, but I couldn't believe that. The program is available as a pdf from a hosting site here-
Endothelial Health Program
The theory was/is that endothelial disfunction (a break down of the lining of the blood vessels) contributed to his MS exacerbation, and that healing the blood and opening vessels would lead to remission. It did.

The program addresses diet, supplements, exercise, things that improve vasodilation and also what to avoid- things that change nitric oxide, harm the endothelium and are vasoconstrictors.
I still believe that all of these measures can lead to stasis and recovery for those not interested in stents at this time. My husband remains on the program, even though he has stents.
I've always felt this was true...and believe it even more so, now.
cheer
Husband dx RRMS 3/07
dx dual jugular vein stenosis (CCSVI) 4/09
http://ccsviinms.blogspot.com
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Postby zap » Wed May 20, 2009 7:05 am

Interesting file! I do think there is still a lot left to be discussed above and beyond it in this area though - while it does touch on vasodilation (very interesting stuff about Nitric oxide), the harmful substance discussed are aimed more at the anti-inflammatory/autoimmune model it seemed?

Whereas now we can look at even other mechanisms by which vasoconstriction and vasodilation occur - since a physical narrowing of the veins would make any such action potentially important.

As I mentioned in the other thread, my first major episode was seemingly brought on by a magic mushroom trip (psyliciban is a vasoconstictor it turns out), and I've been interested to find out that many allergy meds also have this effect (antihistamines and Pseudoephedrine) ... and marijuana is a vasodilator - which would probably explain at least some of its beneficial effects on MS symptoms.
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Postby cheerleader » Wed May 20, 2009 12:07 pm

Hey Zap-
I wrote the paper to address how nitric oxide disruption causes hypercoagulation and inflammation and vasoconstriction in the blood vessels. Stanford's Dr. John Cooke has a terrific book on this for heart patients:
The Cardiovascular Cure
We discussed how the same program was beneficial for MS patients (even before Zamboni's work was published) in terms of endothelial health and nitric oxide balancing- He's a terrific doctor, and at the forefront of endothelium research...and the man that introduced me to Dr. Dake.

Things that disrupt nitric oxide and cause vasoconstriction:
lifestyle: smoking, eating saturated fats, not enough physical exercise, stress (cortisol) lack of vitamin D, lack of vitamin B12, high glucose
toxins/environmental: heavy metals such as cadmium in drinking water and mercury in amalgam fillings, diesel exhaust, pcbs in plastics, pesticides

Vasodilators:
niacin, B12, vitamin D/sunshine, omega3 oil
proteolytic (protein eating) enzymes such as nattokinase, serrapeptase, bromelain
high-powered antioxidants such as quercetin, EGCG
herbs/spices like garlic, curcumin, ginger, ginseng
lifestyle: aerobic exercise, meditation, tai chi, laughter, deep breathing

Maybe add a list of medical, chemical dilators, Zap? That's not really my area...but folks may want to know-
cheer
Husband dx RRMS 3/07
dx dual jugular vein stenosis (CCSVI) 4/09
http://ccsviinms.blogspot.com
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Postby daniel » Fri Jun 19, 2009 9:35 am

I'm been searching around but haven't been able to find much information... I know vasodilation is supposed to release heat from the body, but does it work inversely as well? ie. If you cool down your body by other means (air conditioning, fans, etc) does that cause vasodilation?

And vice-versa as well, does heat cause vasoconstriction?

I'm wondering if that's why people with MS tend to have symptoms come/go with heat application/cooling.
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Postby peekaboo » Fri Jun 19, 2009 10:09 am

Great Questions Daniel -

My speculation is like this - if the internal veins in the brain are running smoothly ie: normal flow, no reflux or collateral veins then your body temperature should be regulated. If they are dilated there is a need for extra circualtion ie: fight of flight, warmth etc. If they are constricting from a healthy response, i would think that they are shutting down certain areas of the body to protect the most important parts of the body like being left out in the cold and your fingers get frozen so your trunk can use the circulation for protection/survival...

Or this could be ramblings and not make sense at all. :)
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Postby Cece » Sun Jan 10, 2010 5:06 pm

Not sure which thread on vasodilation to add my comment to, but this is the one that cheerleader linked back to in a more recent thread.

I use both Provigil and Diet cokes to make it through the day. If I understand it correctly, Diet Coke is vasoconstricting and I'm working towards giving it up. Provigil, on the other hand, has among its side effects that 2% experienced vasodilation. Is it safe to assume that it either has mild vasodilation effects as a whole or at least is not in the vasoconstricting category?

http://provigil.com/media/PDFs/prescribing_info.pdf
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Postby CureIous » Sun Jan 10, 2010 5:22 pm

Cece wrote:Not sure which thread on vasodilation to add my comment to, but this is the one that cheerleader linked back to in a more recent thread.

I use both Provigil and Diet cokes to make it through the day. If I understand it correctly, Diet Coke is vasoconstricting and I'm working towards giving it up. Provigil, on the other hand, has among its side effects that 2% experienced vasodilation. Is it safe to assume that it either has mild vasodilation effects as a whole or at least is not in the vasoconstricting category?

http://provigil.com/media/PDFs/prescribing_info.pdf


Caffeine is a vasoconstrictor in the brain. Many a migraine sufferer gets help for just that reason. Of course everyone will react differently, but the source of the caffeine is irrelevant, and one good reason that too much of it seems to have the opposite effect on MS/CCSVI'ers. When most speak of caffeine's vasodilation properties, that's in the peripheral veins, not the head.

I wouldn't consider anything that is 2% bad or good for you to be statistically significant by any stretch....

Mark.
RRMS Dx'd 2007, first episode 2004. Bilateral stent placement, 3 on left, 1 stent on right, at Stanford August 2009. Watch my operation video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwc6QlLVtko, Virtually symptom free since, no relap
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Postby Mechanicallyinclined » Sun Jan 10, 2010 7:34 pm

I've read this forum and am thinking back to all the things I was doing wrong when I started noticing MS symptomes. The stress was crazy, but I convinced myself that I could handle it. I loved my red meat. I worked in an automotive enviroment where the ventilation was not the greatest.Mornings I had a coffea with sugar kicking around. Afternoons I had a soft drink. I was working my ass off and not getting proper rest. I wasn't a fruit and vegetable kind of guy.I'm sure I can think of a couple of other trouble spots. Hmmmmm, wonder what I was doing wrong?
I'm guessing this all falls into the vasioconstriction category.
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Postby tlynn » Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:42 pm

Talk about doing everything wrong!! Wheaaaa! My problems started when I started taking Imitrex (vasoconstrictor) for migraines that started about 5 years ago. So I have been taking Imitrex at least once a month for the last five years. coincindently I started having MS symtoms a few months after starting the Imitrex. I had never had migraines before. Chocolate is a migraine trigger and I have always been a big chocoholic. I also have real trouble sleeping and took Ambien for a long time. I would not do so well after taking this and wonder if this is also a vasoconstrictor.
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Postby kc » Tue Feb 02, 2010 11:52 am

tlynn wrote:Talk about doing everything wrong!! Wheaaaa! My problems started when I started taking Imitrex (vasoconstrictor) for migraines that started about 5 years ago. So I have been taking Imitrex at least once a month for the last five years. coincindently I started having MS symtoms a few months after starting the Imitrex. I had never had migraines before. Chocolate is a migraine trigger and I have always been a big chocoholic. I also have real trouble sleeping and took Ambien for a long time. I would not do so well after taking this and wonder if this is also a vasoconstrictor.


Mee too! I take 6.25 mg of ambien everynight and I twitch afterwards!!!! To calm down the twitch I have been taking xanax (which is a potent vasodilator). I have been on ambien for 3-4 years now and I probably would not sleep for days if I did not have it. Although I may have to rethink ambien now that it makes me twitchy. wow

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Postby tlynn » Tue Feb 02, 2010 1:35 pm

Hi KC,

Is Ambien a vasodilator or constrictor? I can't find any info. on it.
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Postby Algis » Tue Feb 02, 2010 7:43 pm

Try Zolpidem - Ambien is a trademark.
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