Re: CCSVI treatment pain relief

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Re: CCSVI treatment pain relief

Postby NHE » Wed Jul 01, 2009 1:19 am

I know that the few that have been treated with stents have discussed the need for some heavy duty pain meds following surgery. I just ran across the following article and wondered how it might affect future treatments? I'm sure that there are other options available if the FDA follows this recommendation.

FDA advisers vote to take Vicodin, Percocet off market
http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/06/30/ac ... index.html

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Postby Arcee » Wed Jul 01, 2009 5:01 am

I have been thinking the same thing since I read that last night! Someone probably will get to it before I do, but I certainly will speak with Dr. Dake about it on the 14th if it turns out that I will be needing something
I was only on an interferon for a month because it nailed my liver, but I wondered then about adding Tylenol to that mix...
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Postby chrishasms » Wed Jul 01, 2009 5:49 am

\123
Last edited by chrishasms on Sun Dec 06, 2009 11:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby cheerleader » Wed Jul 01, 2009 6:04 am

Thanks for the story, NHE...I hadn't seen that.
Jeff takes a milk thistle supplement (silymarin) since his initial flare showed sky high liver enzymes, before he took any drugs. His liver's been good since. We've discussed liver enzyme issues in MS patients on here before. It's a problem for many MSers, even without meds.

http://www.thisisms.com/ftopict-6906-liver.html+enzyme

He didn't get any percoset from Dr. Dake, took OTC tylenol for pain. Not sure what will be good for patients to use. Post-op is pretty painful, but Sharon found more relief using a muscle relaxant. Patients should speak with their GPs and get advice regarding appropriate pain relief measures before undergoing the stent procedure. Interaction with the blood thinning medication should be discussed, as well.
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dx dual jugular vein stenosis (CCSVI) 4/09
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Postby Loobie » Wed Jul 01, 2009 7:04 am

Good stuff here. I'm going out with a jumbo sized bottle of Ibuprofen 800's, but if they don't work, I'm going to ask for something stronger.

Oh Sharon....what muscle relaxant did you use?
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Postby mrhodes40 » Wed Jul 01, 2009 7:53 am

ALERT!!
Lew, no you can't take aleve, ibuprophen, aspirin or any of the non steroidal antiinflammatory drugs because they all impact your clotting--UNLESS your doctor is following you and monitors it carefully and has prescribed it for you! Mine refuses to mess with it; clotting is she says often difficult to manage in the right range. I've been easy to manage but we took me off of everything from fish oil to ginger to aleve. :cry:

The problem with the hydorcodone and tyleonol --vicodin- or oxycdone and tylenol -percocet- is the tylenol, which kills your liver especially because a lot of people are not aware of the relatively low doses it takes to cause harm and often they take "safe" tylenol, which is its marketed image, on top of their prescritpion drug, effectively doubling the dose or worse. One of the suggestions was to lower the tylenol dosage in the combination products.

I think the hydrocodone or oxycodone (codeine deriviatives) ought to just be available to us as it is with no tylenol at all, but no dice. The goal of combining is to get people more pain relief with less narcotic. The other combinations use NSAIDs, which we already said is a clotting issue.

The funny thing is that anything to do with these kinds of drugs automatically seems to be an indictment of the narcotic--its funny in this case the dangerous part is the tylenol....
I'm not offering medical advice, I am just a patient too! Talk to your doctor about what is best for you...
http://www.thisisms.com/ftopic-7318-0.html This is my regimen thread
http://www.ccsvibook.com Read my book published by McFarland Health topics
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Postby Loobie » Wed Jul 01, 2009 8:10 am

OK, got it! The 800's are for my IT band pain and I just had a buttload of them. I will leave them in Ohio! I don't ever, ever take acitaminophen because it has never worked on my headaches, so I should be ok with it don't you think? I seriously have probably taken about a dozen tylenols in my life. I've always been an advil and aleeve guy. So I guess I'll see what they say about percocet.
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Re: CCSVI treatment pain relief

Postby NHE » Wed Jul 01, 2009 1:58 pm

eMedicineHealth wrote:N-acetylcysteine (NAC): NAC is the antidote for toxic acetaminophen overdose. It is generally given by mouth. The medication has a foul odor but may be mixed with juice or other flavorings to make it taste better. If the person cannot take NAC by mouth, a tube may be placed through the mouth and into the stomach to help administer it. If giving NAC by this method is not possible, the doctor may give it by IV. NAC is generally given for 20-72 hours.


WebMD wrote:For acetaminophen (Tylenol) overdose: at the beginning of treatment, a first high dose of 140 mg/kg of a 5% solution of N-acetyl cysteine is given. The commercially available 10% and 20% solutions may be diluted with water, carbonated, or non-carbonated beverages, and given through a straw to lessen the unpleasant odor of N-acetyl cysteine. Seventeen additional doses of 70 mg/kg as a 5% solution are given every 4 hours, for a total dose of 1330 mg/kg over 72 hours.


In addition, I remember reading that n-acetyl-cysteine is included in over the counter acetaminophen (paracetamol) in other countries in order to help prevent liver problems but this is not allowed in the US due to the drug companies. I can't find a link right now and can't verify it. Has anyone else heard of this information?

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Postby mrhodes40 » Wed Jul 01, 2009 3:41 pm

Now that is truly interesting NHE!! I use NAC all the time it is a good drug for a number of things it breaks disulphide bonds and is useful for breaking down the mucous in the lungs after a cold or flu--way cheaper than the mucolytic they advertise. And it increases available glutathione in the body which reduces oxidative damage.

David Wheldon FRCP, Anecdotes husband, also discovered it will break elementary bodies of CPn and it is a good antibiotic for that ONE phase (out of several) in the CPn lifecycle.

I'm with you why not add NAC to the stuff if you know it helps?
I'm not offering medical advice, I am just a patient too! Talk to your doctor about what is best for you...
http://www.thisisms.com/ftopic-7318-0.html This is my regimen thread
http://www.ccsvibook.com Read my book published by McFarland Health topics
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