Getting the blood thinned to the theraputic level

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Postby skydog » Fri Jul 31, 2009 5:16 pm

Thanks JL glad to have you over here keeping tabs on us pioneers. Well what to do. I just received the results from my blood work from yesterday. Up a little. Now 1.2 from 1.04 that’s and that’s not much of a change for taking 7.5 mg daily for almost two weeks with the exception of the double dose day a few days back. I am going to try 10 mg for four days and 7.5 mg for the other two days / week and re test in three. I have added sunflower seed butter and a few more nuts to my diet, but really can’t see cutting back much more on the leafy greens. Hardly eating any right now as it is. I will ask my Dr. about the e8 and see what he thinks. Also will send a quick note to Dr. D and see what he thinks. I feel ok but think not as good as earlier on after the surgery. Some issues like the heat intolerance and fatigue seem to be returning along with twinges of pain in both the stent area and the other side of my head above my ear where there still could be restriction. Dog gone thick blood anyway. Any suggestions folks ? Peace, Mark
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Postby jimmylegs » Fri Jul 31, 2009 6:23 pm

no worries mark :)

i don't think you should have to ditch the dark leafies altogether, if it's any consolation. when they test people feeding them broccoli every single day, yes the k levels increase. but they're still good for you in moderation!

let me know what the doc has to say about trying out the vit e8 complex - i'd tend to say no harm trying if you're getting tested anyway; just start off easy does it, adjust the dose if/as needed.

and here's some other tidbits:

how about some nice raw or lightly cooked (NOT nuked) garlic?
J Agric Food Chem. 2007 Feb 21;55(4):1280-8.
"...microwaving, which almost entirely stripped garlic of its blood-thinning effects..."

also check out these foods highest in gamma tocopherol and lowest in vitamin k per 100g serving:
http://www.nutritiondata.com/foods-0001 ... 000-w.html

and the good old omega 3s, and the salicylates, and the ginkgo...
Foods that are generally high in salicylates include:
• many types of spices and flavorings (oregano, cinnamon, paprika, licorice, ginger, turmeric, peppermint, dill, thyme, as well as curry powder and cayenne pepper). Besides, research shows that cayenne pepper reduces blood cholesterol levels.
• most fruits (grapes, raisins, oranges, cherries, strawberries, blueberries, cranberries, tangerines and prunes)
• nuts
• and some others salicylate-rich foods (wine, chewing gum, peppermints, vinegar, honey, orange juice, cider, broccoli, avocados, cauliflower, brussels sprouts, wild carrot, wild lettuce, and cabbage).
(don't know why broccoli's in that list but there it is anyway :)
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Postby skydog » Wed Aug 05, 2009 6:26 pm

Thanks JL I will look a little further into what additional tweaks might add to my nearly impeccable diet to aid blood thinning. I think but am not certain that there could be quite a range in the results depending on time of day, foods eaten, fluid consumption, and physical activity. A typical day for me starts with a full glass of water and the juice of half a lemon. I also drink lots of water throughout the day to stay extra hydrated. For breakfast rice cereal with blueberries and a cup of coffee. Mid morning a berry smoothie which is 1 pint blueberries or raspberries, 1 tbs hemp seed, 1 tbs maca powder, 1 tsp mesquite powder, pinch of mineral salt, 2 small beets with half the tops, 1 apple, 3 sticks of celery, a small bunch of cilantro, which yields enough for some extra for in between meals the rest of the day. For a meal I will have a bowl of ceveche which is my own blend of fresh ocean caught fish, garlic, onions, cilantro, cabbage, olive oil, vinegar, agave nectar, and salt. Once a week we will have local grown beef or chicken. And for a quick pick me up two raw eggs rocky style. I have cut out all processed food and wheat. If you can think of anything I might be missing please feel free to speak your mind. Still have yet to bruise or bleed freely from any recent cuts and scrapes. Cheers, Mark
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Postby jimmylegs » Wed Aug 05, 2009 7:28 pm

you're making me hungry!!!
how's your daily intake of sunflower seeds/oil, almonds, or almond butter?
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Postby Loobie » Thu Aug 06, 2009 6:06 am

INR was only at a 1.1 since I've been back on 1/2 a tab per day. So since the rash has not come back, I have to go to a full tab every other day and 1/2 in between. Hopefully this gets it done.
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Postby jimmylegs » Thu Aug 06, 2009 6:58 am

hi loobie, glad to hear that rash is not bothering you any more.
did you ever manage to get your hands on some e8 complex?
if not, do you have much sunflower oil in your diet?
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Postby Loobie » Thu Aug 06, 2009 7:41 am

I did get some E8.............just yesterday! I don't really know hot to answer the sunflower oil question. It could be in lots of the foods I eat, but as for using it to cook and that, it's usually olive oil.
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Postby jimmylegs » Thu Aug 06, 2009 10:30 am

okay that's good news re the E8 - i hope it helps. did your doc have anything particular to say about the idea?

yea that sounds like in your case it would be hard to tell without reading a lot of ingredients.

besides supplements, i tend to get my intake from sunflower seeds, or i'll make salad dressing using sunflower oil, so it's pretty easy for me to tell.

when will you go for your next INR test?

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Postby Loobie » Thu Aug 06, 2009 11:46 am

Tuesday. I didn't even mention the E8 to him since all I see is the 'vampire nurse' for that stuff! I know we have sunflower oil at home, so I'll say something to my lovely bride to put it in baked stuff and I'll start using it on my grilled stuff in lieu of EVOO (unless it's not as good!)
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Postby jimmylegs » Thu Aug 06, 2009 12:20 pm

cool :) what size are your E8 pills? 400IU?
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Postby jimmylegs » Thu Aug 06, 2009 3:47 pm

FYI lew found this:
"Sunflower oil has a very mild flavor. Both the refined and unrefined oils have a low smoke point, and are best limited to salad dressings and dishes cooked on a low heat. High oleic sunflower oil can tolerate high cooking temperatures and can be used for deep-frying."
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Postby kaykayaa » Thu Aug 06, 2009 6:56 pm

mrhodes40 wrote:Wow K what a tale! If one is suspicious about the CCSVI model then this is interesting, you kind of wonder if you have a stenosed area that plugged for a bit after the anticoags were gone and that triggered the lesions maybe. are you getting checked for this new model?


Hey there--sorry I didn't respond right away. My plan is:
Read this forum as often as possible!
Get the results of my most recent brain scan (done today at NIH)
If there are new lesions, head hastily to my neuro to see if he can do testing.
If there are no new lesions, do my regular appointment at the end of August.
If, during that appointment, he says no to tests, I will call Buffalo and see what they're up to.
If can't do that, I'm going to go into holding pattern until next scan.
Dr. Dake would be later I think. I don't have the kind of problems that merit surgery...yet.

I've mentioned the coumadin issue to folks at NIH. They are going to look at my last scan (the one that had three new lesions and pretty much clinched the MS diagnosis) in light of my stroke history, which apparently their special radiologist did not. However, could be an obvious difference between stroke lesions and MS lesions...I don't know.

But as a result of that, I am trying to find natural ways to dilate my vessels and maybe thin the blood a bit more than the 25mg of aspirin currently prescribed.

I am convinced I've got something going on in the jugulars though. All my life, that jaw/neck nexus has been my trouble area--from operations for ear tubes, to wisdom teeth extraction, to head aches to dislocating jaw to TMJ. I will find out eventually.

Thanks for your interest! Probably more of an answer than you bargained for!
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Postby catfreak » Thu Aug 06, 2009 8:28 pm

Kay wrote:

I am convinced I've got something going on in the jugulars though. All my life, that jaw/neck nexus has been my trouble area--from operations for ear tubes, to wisdom teeth extraction, to head aches to dislocating jaw to TMJ. I will find out eventually.


Kay, this sounds just like me!

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9/3/09 Stanford - Dr Dake - Stent in R-J to unblock Arachnoid Cyst in Sigmoid Sinus. Stent in narrowed L-J. Balloon in narrowing where R & L Jugulars meet.
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Postby mrhodes40 » Fri Aug 07, 2009 6:49 am

For breakfast rice cereal with blueberries and a cup of coffee. Mid morning a berry smoothie which is 1 pint blueberries or raspberries, 1 tbs hemp seed, 1 tbs maca powder, 1 tsp mesquite powder, pinch of mineral salt, 2 small beets with half the tops, 1 apple, 3 sticks of celery, a small bunch of cilantro, which yields enough for some extra for in between meals the rest o


Mark, Blueberries are on the no-no list..... :?
I'm not offering medical advice, I am just a patient too! Talk to your doctor about what is best for you...
http://www.thisisms.com/ftopic-7318-0.html This is my regimen thread
http://www.ccsvibook.com Read my book published by McFarland Health topics
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Postby jimmylegs » Fri Aug 07, 2009 7:15 am

marie, i think mark noticed blueberries on the list of high salicylate foods i posted.

i tried to do a 'highest k lowest e search on nutritiondata.com but i notice they are not sorting them from highest to lowest - thought that was how it used to be. i had to flip through to find the blueberries. kind of a pain to have to search through so many pages of results trying to figure out which foods really do have the highest k!

i did notice that blueberries have more K and less E than vice versa, in the order of 16 mcg K vs 0 mcg E per 100g serving, i think i saw? as opposed to pumpkin seeds which are crazy high in K by the looks of things!!!
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