Getting the blood thinned to the theraputic level

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Re: Getting the blood thinned

Postby NHE » Thu Aug 20, 2009 4:52 pm

questor wrote:A question for those of you who have completed the CCSVI procedure with Dr. Dake: How long after surgery did you wait before meeting with your GP to start monitoring INR?

I'd like to know so that I can schedule the first appointment with my GP in advance.


While I haven't had the CCSVI stent procedure, making an appointment with your GP in advance an keeping them in the loop seems like a good idea especially considering others' experiences.

It sounds like most of you were being tested at least once a week unless there were problems, right? With an ideal INR level of between 2.5 and 2.8?


I may be misremembering, but I thought that the ideal level after stents was around 2.0.

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Postby Sharon » Thu Aug 20, 2009 5:26 pm

Yes, yes, Yes

Schedule or at least call your GP before you go to Stanford. You need to have a follow up blood test within a week. Early on this summer, Dr. Dake was wanting a range between 2.0-3.0. I do not know if that is what he is still looking for.

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Re: Getting the blood thinned

Postby questor » Fri Aug 21, 2009 8:59 am

NHE wrote:While I haven't had the CCSVI stent procedure, making an appointment with your GP in advance an keeping them in the loop seems like a good idea especially considering others' experiences.


Thanks for the feedback, Sharon and NHE,
I've got both my GP and Neurologist in the loop, they are both supportive and interested. My GP hosts a weekly call-in medical talk show on public radio here in Santa Cruz that is podcast on the net and has a fairly large following. She is in a good position to help spread the word assuming the CCSVI experience of one of her patients is positive.

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Postby Sharon » Fri Aug 21, 2009 9:39 am

My GP hosts a weekly call-in medical talk show on public radio here in Santa Cruz that is podcast on the net and has a fairly large following. She is in a good position to help spread the word assuming the CCSVI experience of one of her patients is positive.


Great!!
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Postby skydog » Sat Sep 05, 2009 1:41 pm

Thought I might bump this topic for those who will now try maintain thinned blood with the blood thinners. One of the most important things you can do is to stay tanked up on fluids. Lots of good clean fresh water and save the wine for when you can celebrate getting off the blood thinners. Cheers, Mark
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Postby Jamie » Sat Sep 05, 2009 1:55 pm

The level needs to be between 2-3.

Mel's had check ups every two weeks.

Hers was 1.7 at first check up, 2.7 at second after the dose went up (which was when she was feeling tired) then settled just over 2 now for the last couple of check ups.

Hopefully she'll be off them all being well on Sept 24th when she has her follow up.
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Postby jimmylegs » Thu Dec 10, 2009 5:13 am

stumbled on this while researching something else altogether..

Am J Clin Nutr. 1991 Sep;54(3):438-63.
Omega-3 fatty acids in health and disease and in growth and development.
Simopoulos AP.

Several sources of information suggest that man evolved on a diet with a ratio of omega 6 to omega 3 fatty acids of approximately 1 (JL note: i've read 1200mg O6 per day and 1100mg O3 so a smidge more O6 is okay) whereas today this ratio is approximately 10:1 to 20-25:1 (JL note: i did a 3 day diet diary analysis for someone and even that relatively good diet had an O6:O3 ratio of 6:1 - 11.1 depending on the day), indicating that Western diets are deficient in omega 3 fatty acids compared with the diet on which humans evolved and their genetic patterns were established. Omega-3 fatty acids increase bleeding time; decrease platelet aggregation, blood viscosity, and fibrinogen; and increase erythrocyte deformability, thus decreasing the tendency to thrombus formation. In no clinical trial, including coronary artery graft surgery, has there been any evidence of increased blood loss due to ingestion of omega 3 fatty acids. Many studies show that the effects of omega 3 fatty acids on serum lipids depend on the type of patient and whether the amount of saturated fatty acids in the diet is held constant. In patients with hyperlipidemia, omega 3 fatty acids decrease low-density-lipoprotein (LDL) cholesterol if the saturated fatty acid content is decreased, otherwise there is a slight increase, but at high doses (32 g) they lower LDL cholesterol; furthermore, they consistently lower serum triglycerides in normal subjects and in patients with hypertriglyceridemia whereas the effect on high-density lipoprotein (HDL) varies from no effect to slight increases. The discrepancies between animal and human studies most likely are due to differences between animal and human metabolism. In clinical trials eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) in the form of fish oils along with antirheumatic drugs improve joint pain in patients with rheumatoid arthritis; have a beneficial effect in patients with ulcerative colitis; and in combination with drugs, improve the skin lesions, lower the hyperlipidemia from etretinates, and decrease the toxicity of cyclosporin in patients with psoriasis. In various animal models omega 3 fatty acids decrease the number and size of tumors and increase the time elapsed before appearance of tumors. Studies with nonhuman primates and human newborns indicate that DHA is essential for the normal functional development of the retina and brain, particularly in premature infants. Because omega 3 fatty acids are essential in growth and development throughout the life cycle, they should be included in the diets of all humans. Omega-3 and omega 6 fatty acids are not interconvertible in the human body and are important components of practically all cell membranes. Whereas cellular proteins are genetically determined, the polyunsaturated fatty acid (PUFA) composition of cell membranes is to a great extent dependent on the dietary intake.(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 400 WORDS)
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Postby Johnson » Thu Dec 10, 2009 4:06 pm

That is an important piece of the puzzle jimmylegs. I take 6,000 - 10,000 mg of fish oil a day. It's brain food! I do the enteric capsules so that I don't get the deep-sea burps, but my 3 year old loves cod liver oil on a spoon. His mother is Portuguese, so maybe that's it...

Vitamin E8 - but not alpha-tocopherol alone! as it scavenges the delta-tocopherols from the blood, and it is the delta-tocopherols that are important. North Americans are hugely deficient in the delta-tocopherols. Not all Vitamins E are created equal.

Nattokinase is wondrous in helping the blood, supporting the circulatory system. It is an enzyme, and you can't really overdose on it to my knowledge. (well, everything in moderation)

There is a ton of validation for all of that, which I can't put links to right now. Simple Google searches will give you a lot. Just make sure that the source isn't Johnson's-free-and-anonymous-health-tips.com, but is reputable - such as doctors' journals, PubMed, NIH, etc.

I noticed at the beginning of this thread that Mark was mentioning thick blood, and have gathered that he grows and eats lots of leafy greens loaded with Vitamin K - a clotting factor. You can get your K serum levels checked

As a side note, I cannot ever recall having a bruise in my life, and I stop bleeding very quickly.

Remember too, that Recommended Daily Allowances (RDA) for vitamins and nutrients is the minimum requirement to sustain life. I have been taking 15,000 iu of D3 for years (RDA = 400 iu). Research has shown that it only starts to get toxic in the 100,000s. I read that some clowns were taking close to a million a day, until they became anorexic, and very ill. Dr. Mercola (I take him with a dose of salt) said that if you get Swine Flu, to take 150,000 iu in one dose.

I'm sure that most people are aware of all of that, and hope that I am not seeming pedantic. And of course, consult a health practitioner and remember that I use a fake name, and this is the Internet. Caveat lector.
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Postby jimmylegs » Thu Dec 10, 2009 7:39 pm

lots of good info there, j.

just to clarify for other readers, vitamin E8 by definition is not just alpha tocopherol. it is a natural ratio blend of four tocopherols (including alpha) and four tocotrienols.
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Postby Johnson » Thu Dec 10, 2009 9:27 pm

thanks for doing the links, jimmylegs.

I learn a lot from books, a lot from living, a lot from the Internet, and I don't/can't keep track of my sources.
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Postby jimmylegs » Sat Dec 12, 2009 8:29 am

hey there. oh those links are just in my signature. it would be reaaaallly long if all my sources were included LOL!!!
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Postby skydog » Sat Dec 12, 2009 9:27 am

Johnson, Interesting thing is that I am still not bruising even though my INR was up to 4.21 and am on plavix/warfrin and aspirin. Taken a couple of dandy falls recently and no bruises to show for it. My whole life never have bruised. JL did you ever get the deck garden growing? Meat and potatoes up here for awhile. The garden is freeze dried and brown right now! Cheers, Mark
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Postby jimmylegs » Sat Dec 12, 2009 9:35 am

i bruise. wow, do i bruise. wiped out twice on the ice at work recently and my knees are black and blue!

i have a high dietary sunflower oil and seed intake, plus my supplement.. and the omega 3s.. maybe that has something to do with it :)

but seriously j, how could you be on that much omega 3 and not be bruising. what's your e complex intake?

mark, i only got lettuce and some herbs growing out there this season (really should get those planters inside today, given the subzero weather). really nice salads, i love tabbouleh :D

hope to do better next year!

JL
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Postby skydog » Sat Dec 12, 2009 12:33 pm

JL, Not taking any supplements at this time. I do get my omega 3's from a daily spoonful of organic nut butters, salmon, and in some degree the fruits and vegetables. Not sure still why I just do not bruise. The only bruise that I can remember was post surgery back in June which was quite small and disappeared overnight. Just kidding about the meat and potatoes although it is a small part of my diet these days I still consume mostly freshly shipped fruit and vegetables. Can hardly wait until spring. It just plain floors me to pay such a high price for sub prime produce. Hope you get the patio garden going this next season. Wait till it warms a bit! Just getting out our cold snap here right now. Below freezing for the past several days! Cheers, Mark
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Postby Johnson » Sat Dec 12, 2009 1:30 pm

jimmylegs wrote:i bruise. wow, do i bruise. wiped out twice on the ice at work recently and my knees are black and blue!

i have a high dietary sunflower oil and seed intake, plus my supplement.. and the omega 3s.. maybe that has something to do with it :)

but seriously j, how could you be on that much omega 3 and not be bruising. what's your e complex intake?

mark, i only got lettuce and some herbs growing out there this season (really should get those planters inside today, given the subzero weather). really nice salads, i love tabbouleh :D

hope to do better next year!

JL

I'm not sure if that question was for me, but I do about 1200 iu of E8 a day, plus a lot of enzymes (nattokinase, serraptase, quercetin/bromelain, rutin), nuts, and use about a litre of olive oil (organic, extra virgin) a month. Oh yes, raw milk, butter and cheeses too.

Then there is the pycnogenol, reduced glutathion, minerals, blah, blah...
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