This Is MS Multiple Sclerosis Community: Knowledge & Support

We all know how those Oligo bands are used to diagnose MS....the bands show signs that IgG has been elevated in the CNS, and myelin is being destroyed. The story MS patients have been told is that this is caused by a rogue immune system, eating up their myelin for no good reason.

BUT....Oligo bands are found in other cerebrovascular diseases...not just MS.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6785663

If CCSVI is creating hypoxic brain tissue damage, than those oglio bands are not so surprising. Brain tissue damage activates B cells and the immune system...and stroke is not considered an "auto-immune" disease.
cheer

_________________
Husband dx RRMS 3/07
dx dual jugular vein stenosis (CCSVI) 4/09
dual stents placed 5/09
CCSVI in MS

Oligoclonal bands also show up in the cerebrospinal fluid of patients with dementia..


http://www.springerlink.com/content/alchay4vglk2cw3f/

And not to put too fine a point on it, but dementia is also not considered an "auto-immune" disease.
cheer

_________________
Husband dx RRMS 3/07
dx dual jugular vein stenosis (CCSVI) 4/09
dual stents placed 5/09
CCSVI in MS

Good points Cheer,

1. Why are there oligoclonal bands in the spinal fluid that point to an autoimmune process?

and

2. How can blocked jugular veins give you a lesion on your spine which is no where near the stenosis?

Those were my neuros 2 main points to argue against CCSVI.
I have got him an invite to the conference so hopefully he will go and his questions can be answered!

We can answer your neuro's questions today, but I'm sure he'll be more convinced hearing it from doctors

#1 see above. oligo bands and B cell activation occur in neurovascular disorders/stroke/dementia- and are in response to tissue damage/hypoxia which we see in CCSVI. No autoimmunity is necessary to get those bands.

#2 Dr. Zamboni's new paper on collateral circulation that forms due to CCSVI....it affects venous return throughout the body-
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19534716


cheer

_________________
Husband dx RRMS 3/07
dx dual jugular vein stenosis (CCSVI) 4/09
dual stents placed 5/09
CCSVI in MS

Cheer, this is what I was getting at in my posts the other month.

I am becoming more and more convinced that MS 'relapses' are the waxing and waning of ischemic events.

Jamie

Not sure what's convincing you but your idea seems to be consistent with this research--

Mild cerebral hypoxia-ischemia produces a sub-acute transient inflammatory response that is less selective and prolonged after a substantial insult

I've had the thought that MS might be a "slow" stroke--for lack of better words. Here's New York- Presbyterian Hospital's take onCerebral Insufficiency

Looks like a very familiar laundry list to me.

Sharon

Sharon

I posted about this a while ago!



The pattern of ischemic stroke and symptoms are the same as MS but more violent.

There is even such a things as a transient ischemic attack that can cause MS type symptoms that go away.

Now if the ischemia was caused by vascular rather than arterial, thus less violent, methods then that would explain the waxing and waning and longer course of the MS damage.

Even the differences in disease type would correlate with blockage type as outlines in Zambonis paper.

It all fits.

Jamie

Oops--sorry I missed it.

Sharon

123

Sharon-
Thanks for the fantastic research. Yes, the list of symptoms looks alarmingly familiar...and the description of CCSVI in MS as a "slow stroke" is right on. I know we've been round this mulberry bush before, and I remember your thoughts, Jamie. We are like minded, buddy. It sure does seem like the glove is fitting, Chris.

Just found it interesting that the one "proof" of autoimmune attack of MS the neuros point to, those oglio bands, can be found in stroke, ischemia, dementia and other neurovascular disorders. And the fact that immune modulating medicines sort of work for awhile while the disease is inflammatory makes sense. But that does not mean MS is autoimmune. I think the neurological community took a giant leap of faith into the arms of pharmaceutical industry, and it is soon going to come back to haunt them.
cheer

_________________
Husband dx RRMS 3/07
dx dual jugular vein stenosis (CCSVI) 4/09
dual stents placed 5/09
CCSVI in MS

Agreed above and with Sharon's thoughts.

Now, can we do LP pre and two months post surgery?

I'd have that as part of my study.

That's interesting because ever since I started having symptoms of PPMS, I've thought of MS as like having a stroke in slow motion.



I've been wondering if the oligo bands might disappear following CCSVI repair.

Cheer: I admit I was bummed when you said you were leaving TIMS. But if this is how you leave, feel free to leave anytime.

Rokkit

Yes glad to see you still around Cheer:)!!!

I am going to copy and paste your post as a reply to my neuro's questions on e-mail:)

L x

Cheer


That's very interesting indeed--pathological studies (Barnett, Prineas, etc.) indicate the IgG in MS is non-specific.

Immunoglobulins and complement in postmortem multiple sclerosis tissue

Have a good day everyone.

Sharon

Jamie,

You mentioned you'd be happy to have spinal taps pre and post op. It makes so much sense to me and is something I've discussed off-board.

My neuro does a tap every 6 months. His primary reason for me is to make sure I don't have JC virus antibodies, since I'm on Ty. But he is also a reasearcher and uses the fluid in other analysis. He repeatedly looks at the macrophage, fetuin, and the osteopontin counts. It is a very quantitative view of MS immune activity.

I'd be the first one to line up for pre and post op taps. I'm very analytical and they are proof positive for me. I believe they are the window to activity moreso than an MRI.

If the neurologists ever come together with the interventional radiologists on CCSVI, and start to see the body as one system, then we'll have wholistic treatment and care. I just hope on Sept 8th, a huge shock wave hits the neurologists and they open their eyes to the reality of CCSVI.

Michelle