posture & CCSVI

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

posture & CCSVI

Postby zap » Thu Sep 03, 2009 12:06 pm

In another thread, talk of how poor posture (brought on by computer use, poor fitness, disability, spasticity, etc) could be a factor in the compression of the cerebral drainage veins.

LR1234 wrote:I can also say for sure that when I strengthen my stomach muscles by doing sit-ups my symptoms improve. It straightens my back and corrects my posture.


I had "Is physical therapy suggested to correct postural problems and strengthen weakened muscles? (I am just thinking about how veins do not happen in a vacuum, and wondering what other specialties might be useful in approaching this problem – I suspect I may have issues caused by posture - computer job - and the way my body is built, and would like to correct those if so, along with the stents.)" on my list of questions sent to Dr Dake, but we never got around to it so I don't have any answers ... but my thought is post-op at least, a physical therapist might be a good idea, post vascular therapist ...

Anyone with thoughts, experiences, research on the notion, let's hear about it!
User avatar
zap
Family Elder
 
Posts: 326
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2009 3:00 pm

Advertisement

Postby cheerleader » Thu Sep 03, 2009 12:15 pm

Here's that discussion you mentioned, zap... on injury to the cervical spine and cervical myelopathy-
http://www.thisisms.com/ftopic-7519-day ... al-15.html

just for folks who mighta missed it.
cheer
Husband dx RRMS 3/07
dx dual jugular vein stenosis (CCSVI) 4/09
http://ccsviinms.blogspot.com
User avatar
cheerleader
Family Elder
 
Posts: 5048
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 3:00 pm
Location: southern California

Postby Rokkit » Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:12 pm

Posture has been one of my theories as far as my case goes. I started playing the guitar about 3 years ago after about a 20 year hiatus. I don't do anything half way, so when I started up again I was playing sitting down hunched over the guitar with my neck craned over awkwardly for hours every day. About 3 months into that my first symptom started: tingling in my right leg, only when sitting in my office chair at work.

Related? I have no idea. But I have wondered if I had stenosis flying under the radar during that time, if my posture could have affected venous drainage enough to push the situation over the edge. It appears from Zamboni's research that if you have stenosis, the symptoms are inevitable anyway, but maybe the posture brought it about sooner. I would be surprised if posture caused stenosis, but maybe it aggravates it.

Rokkit
Rokkit
Family Elder
 
Posts: 669
Joined: Tue May 19, 2009 3:00 pm

Postby mrhodes40 » Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:36 pm

I think it is reasonable to assume it plays a role, hard to know if some kinds of stenosis are likely to be helped by PT especially, for example I can't imagine the azygos is alterable, but the jugs maybe could be opened up if the neck is not constantly chin to chest....and if you are chin to chest and the blood mostly in the vertebral veins and you are hunched it seems reasonable that would not be good. Someone would have to check with dopplers or something to see.

It is pretty well accepted that Yoga helps MS and that is stretching and strengthening. Eric Small is a person with MS who became a yoga addict and whose symptoms improved very much. He clams near alleviation of what sounds like was about a 6 and he is elderly now. You can get his DVD to do it yourself....

Might he have had the jug stenosis and might it have been alleviated JUST ENOUGH by the long neck, head high practice every day? I don't know that anyone could say for sure but it seems possible at least.

I personally like low tech stuff like that. if it can't hurt then go for it....in fact I ahve Eric's DVD somewhere....let's see......... :o
I'm not offering medical advice, I am just a patient too! Talk to your doctor about what is best for you...
http://www.thisisms.com/ftopic-7318-0.html This is my regimen thread
http://www.ccsvibook.com Read my book published by McFarland Health topics
User avatar
mrhodes40
Family Elder
 
Posts: 2066
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2004 3:00 pm
Location: USA

Postby CRHInv » Thu Sep 03, 2009 5:46 pm

I have wanted to ask this very question. Position does seem to effect me.

My MS symptoms started after I decided to paint the interior of my home pretty much by myself. Before all of this, I had a habit of taking on a bit too much. I painted almost everyday for 4-6 hours for about a month. It was taking a long time because I am sort of particular. I would tilt my head back to cut in high ceilings and lean forward doing baseboards. I really remember a few days of the ceilings where the pain in my neck was super, super bad, (but I was almost done...) but I never imagined I wouldn't just heal in a couple of days.

When I sit up, especially at my computer, I get a slight swelling sensation at the base of my skull. When I am flared, this make me sick to my stomach and dizzy. My Lhermitte sign also becomes more aggravated.

I also have scoleosis and have had neck issues since I was in college.

Does this sound familiar to anyone else?
User avatar
CRHInv
Family Elder
 
Posts: 402
Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2009 3:00 pm
Location: Chandler, AZ

Postby LR1234 » Fri Sep 04, 2009 9:19 am

Well, I have started my stomach strengthening exercises again. My L'hermittes seems strong at the moment so it will be interesting to see if that calms down once I am back on my regime. (I am also due to go back on LDN and continue onto the Wheldon protocol fully soon)
LR1234
Family Elder
 
Posts: 1505
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2009 4:00 pm
Location: California

Inclined therapy is unrelated?

Postby AndrewKFletcher » Fri Sep 04, 2009 10:46 am

Thank you for reporting your observations with posture and ms.

Maybe it is time that you read what has happened and is happening to foreverspring, who has merely experimented with posture to see if her condition can be reveresed.

Yes posture is very important and yse simply tilting the bed you sleep in can and has reveresd the symptoms of ms. http://www.thisisms.com/ftopic-6755-120.html

Andrew
User avatar
AndrewKFletcher
Family Elder
 
Posts: 772
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 4:00 pm
Location: Paignton, Devon, UK

Postby LR1234 » Fri Sep 04, 2009 11:54 am

My bed is tilted (much to the annoyance of my fiance!) not sure that I am having any major symptoms changes though. I will keep it like that just in case.
LR1234
Family Elder
 
Posts: 1505
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2009 4:00 pm
Location: California

Postby skydog » Fri Sep 04, 2009 7:01 pm

My bed is tilted also. I like it that way and it seems to help me. Now the wife has left for the sofa and we are trying to work out a compromise in our sleeping arrangement. Too young for separate beds... but I secretly like the extra room to stretch out. Dr. Dake said OK to the inversion table. If it feels good go for it. I will start back into it low and slow for now. Keep Stretching those spastic muscles. Peace and Health, Mark
Plant a BIG Garden Live in the Moment
User avatar
skydog
Family Elder
 
Posts: 306
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 4:00 pm
Location: North Oregon Coast

Postby AndrewKFletcher » Sat Sep 05, 2009 12:54 am

Great, thanks for the replies.

The timescale is around 4 months for significant neurological changes, but you should be observing changes in skin tone, body temperature, circulation, sleep pattern, spasm, and be on the look out for electrical shooting pains as these signify imminent improvements.

What this therapy is liken to is the complete reversal of how ms began for you. Or picturing the symptoms in reverse as they first appeared.

So there may be an initial increase in spasm, you may also revert back to relapsing remitting stage, again based on reports from people over the years.

Keep prescriptions for glasses also as these will be useful in the coming months.

Mark can you elaborate when you say it seems to help me? How does it appear to help you?

Andrew
User avatar
AndrewKFletcher
Family Elder
 
Posts: 772
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 4:00 pm
Location: Paignton, Devon, UK

Postby zap » Sat Sep 05, 2009 9:01 am

I know my cervical MRI mentioned I'd "lost cervical lordosis" - which is to say the natural curve of the neck was flattened out, I believe. Wonder if that has any bearing on this .... or just a separate and unrelated effect of bad posture, computer job, etc
User avatar
zap
Family Elder
 
Posts: 326
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2009 3:00 pm

Postby bibliotekaren » Sat Sep 05, 2009 7:52 pm

This question has been on my mind for a while as well. While negative for cervical spondyloarthropathy, I do have degenerative joint disease at C6-7 (this is in reference to other thread Cheer posted). And, Zap, I haven't had a normal curve in my neck for years now. Even though I was a very active person for years, I had to often seek relief for suboccipital/cervical woes throughout the years.

Both my own interventions (stretching, yoga, altering my posture) and those of others (chiropractic, massage, myofascial release, cranial-sacral, polarity) helped a lot. It makes sense that these interventions could have been releasing myofascial restrictions creating or, more likely, worsening a stenosis. Of course, depending on the where and severity of the stenosis. I dissected cadavers in college many years ago and remember being pretty overwhelmed by how dense the neck area was and all that was going on in there.

The key for me has been that the amount of relief gained by any of this is less and less now as my muscles strangle me. I showed some of the CCSVI material to my chiropractor who does rather non-traditional myofascial work on me (haven't done rack-em-crack-em chiros for years now). She thought it was brilliant and very applicable, at least for me.

So, maybe I'm mixing other things with posture, but I view them in a similar light with the CCSVI glasses on. Oh, and I'm an inclined bed person too just not anywhere as high as recommended!
User avatar
bibliotekaren
Family Member
 
Posts: 75
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2009 3:00 pm
Location: US

Postby AndrewKFletcher » Sun Sep 06, 2009 3:33 am

Have you thought about raising your bed to five degrees for a few months to test what happens? if you feel uncomfortable than easy to revert back to a lower angle but I suspect you will find more relief from the additional traction gained by tilting the bed further along with the additional circulation gains.

Andrew
User avatar
AndrewKFletcher
Family Elder
 
Posts: 772
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 4:00 pm
Location: Paignton, Devon, UK

Postby LR1234 » Sun Sep 06, 2009 4:12 am

Hi Andrew,
This topic is about posture and CCSVI.
I am sure lots of people would really be happy to talk about your ideas on raising the bed as they can be very helpful but please start a new thread for this. It is a lengthy topic and deserves a thread of its own!
LR1234
Family Elder
 
Posts: 1505
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2009 4:00 pm
Location: California

Postby skydog » Sun Sep 06, 2009 1:30 pm

Andrew, I guess the best answer to how it makes me feel is that I am a inclined kinda guy. Lying flat doesn't feel right even when I lay on the sofa I am inclined to prop up. Yes on another thread here would be great. Peace, Mark
Plant a BIG Garden Live in the Moment
User avatar
skydog
Family Elder
 
Posts: 306
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 4:00 pm
Location: North Oregon Coast

Next

Return to Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency (CCSVI)

 


  • Related topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Robnl


Contact us | Terms of Service