Lisinopril and CSVI patient

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Lisinopril and CSVI patient

Postby ErikaSlovakia » Fri Sep 04, 2009 9:12 am

As I have stenosis and also high blood pressure I have decided to ask my doctor to change my pills for high BP for Lisinopril.
Usually only my pulse is high around 120. My BP was about 150/110 so I was taking Vasocardin.
I got the information it is good for MS patients with CSVI to take Lisinopril.

So today was my first day.
I paid for 30 pills 1,17 Euro. My health insurance company paid about 2 Euro. I live in small town in small Slovakia. There was no problem to get it. I am supposed to take 5 mg a day which is one pill.
My BP right now is 120/76 and pulse is 66. Great! But it is only first day which means nothing important. But the drug works right now.
Anyhow, as soon as the doctors are ready I will go for the OP of my veins.
Possible side effects are dizziness and headache. I have been suffering from this for years anyway...
Erika
Aug. 7, 09 Doppler Ultras. in Poland, left Jugul. valve problem, RRMS since 1996, now SPMS,
- Nov.3,09: one stent in the left jug. vein in Katowice, Poland, LDN, never on DMDs
- Jan. 19, 11: control venography in Katowice - negative but I feel worse
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Postby questor » Fri Sep 04, 2009 9:47 am

Erika,
Could you point me to any information about the benefit of lisinopril and CCSVI?

I've been taking verapamil daily for about 2 years now for migraine prevention. I see info on the web about the use of lisinopril for migraine prevention as well, it is probably in a drug class similar to verapamil.

I'm wondering if switching to lisinopril would be a benefit for me w/r/t CCSVI (or perhaps verapamil is already providing me with this benefit).

Thanks for any information,

--Tracy
CCSVI Procedure 9/16/2009 at Stanford
Stent in left and right IJVs
SPMS
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Postby ErikaSlovakia » Fri Sep 04, 2009 10:13 am

Hi Tracy,
it was tested only on mice so far!
Type this: Dr lawrence Lisinopril mice- in google. You get more articles.
It is really the same for me to take Vasocardin or Lisinopril. Even the price is almost the same.
I still think the OP is the most important.
Erika
Aug. 7, 09 Doppler Ultras. in Poland, left Jugul. valve problem, RRMS since 1996, now SPMS,
- Nov.3,09: one stent in the left jug. vein in Katowice, Poland, LDN, never on DMDs
- Jan. 19, 11: control venography in Katowice - negative but I feel worse
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Postby guitarguy » Fri Sep 04, 2009 10:33 am

Your BP was 150/110 and pulse 120 on your old pills? Your pressure was not even under control if that's the case. It looks like Lisinopril is working for you, just be aware of the side effects. If you develop a cough you will have to go off. A cough is a common side effect of Lisinopril. not everyone gets it, but it's the most reported side effect.
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Postby questor » Fri Sep 04, 2009 10:50 am

Thanks, Erika,
I remember reading about this now.

Here's a link to a Medscape Today article:

Hypertension Drugs May Be Helpful in Treating MS

--Tracy

EDIT: 09062009 - Added Medscape link
EDIT: 09112011 - Removed Lawrence Steinman link, no longer valid
Last edited by questor on Sun Sep 11, 2011 8:49 am, edited 2 times in total.
CCSVI Procedure 9/16/2009 at Stanford
Stent in left and right IJVs
SPMS
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Postby ErikaSlovakia » Sun Sep 06, 2009 5:55 am

questor wrote:
Here's a link to related articles for future reference:

Lisinopril and MS

--Tracy

Thank you! I did not know about this.

The drug works for my BP. Right now it is 115/80 and my pulse is 85. (4 hours after taking 5 mg)
My doctor will be happy with me.
I do not feel any side effects.
Erika
Aug. 7, 09 Doppler Ultras. in Poland, left Jugul. valve problem, RRMS since 1996, now SPMS,
- Nov.3,09: one stent in the left jug. vein in Katowice, Poland, LDN, never on DMDs
- Jan. 19, 11: control venography in Katowice - negative but I feel worse
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Postby ErikaSlovakia » Sun Sep 06, 2009 6:00 am

guitarguy wrote:Your BP was 150/110 and pulse 120 on your old pills? Your pressure was not even under control if that's the case. It looks like Lisinopril is working for you, just be aware of the side effects. If you develop a cough you will have to go off. A cough is a common side effect of Lisinopril. not everyone gets it, but it's the most reported side effect.


Sorry, I was not exact enough. It was without any pills for BP.
With the first drug my BP was OK, but the pulse was still around 100.
It also depends if it is hot weather and I have to walk more than 10 minutes or I have too much stress.

So far, I do not have any cough. I will see later.
Erika
Aug. 7, 09 Doppler Ultras. in Poland, left Jugul. valve problem, RRMS since 1996, now SPMS,
- Nov.3,09: one stent in the left jug. vein in Katowice, Poland, LDN, never on DMDs
- Jan. 19, 11: control venography in Katowice - negative but I feel worse
ErikaSlovakia
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Postby ErikaSlovakia » Thu Sep 10, 2009 6:42 am

My BP is fine, just my pulse is high 117 so I took another 5 mg. My doctor told me I can do that.

I got very angry with my health insurance company. I was told there is possibility they would pay for my treatment in Poland 100%. When I asked for more details they told me to go to see my neuro in my town.
Last week I started with: "nobody in this country knows about CCSVI."
In this case I must say they are lasy. Anyway, my neuro is very busy and does not speak English.
It is really easier when I place the stents by myself :D
Erika
Aug. 7, 09 Doppler Ultras. in Poland, left Jugul. valve problem, RRMS since 1996, now SPMS,
- Nov.3,09: one stent in the left jug. vein in Katowice, Poland, LDN, never on DMDs
- Jan. 19, 11: control venography in Katowice - negative but I feel worse
ErikaSlovakia
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Postby radeck » Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:19 am

The Steinman article about Lisinopril was indeed very impressive in that the drug affected channels known to deliver inflammation in humans with demyelinating disease without suppressing the immune system as a whole. Crucially, it completely reversed disability in mice (note that this was recently accrued disability, so probably not much axonal loss involved, thereby facilitating re-myelination), as opposed to just reducing it.

Most of the quantitative results of the paper are not based on giving the lisinopril to mice orally, but T cells are treated in vitro with doses of lisinopril about 100 times higher than what humans usually take for BP. Then those T cells are re-injected into the mice. However, there is a section where they use lower doses, i.e. 1 mg/kg/day body weight, that are closer to what humans take (i.e. a person weighing 70 kg would have to take 70 mg/day). They show that this reverses disability similarly to the high dose. What wasn't clear to me is whether in that section they also treat the T cells in vitro, or whether the whole experiment is in vivo, i.e. whether they actually give the mice lisinopril with their food.

A practical problem may be that many people with MS have normal blood pressure. A 70 kg human taking 70 mg/day of lisinopril would probably be very fatigued. But perhaps less is enough, since the Steinman study saw no significant drop in efficacy when going from 10 mg/kg/day to 1 mg/kg/day either.

Radeck
Last edited by radeck on Mon Sep 12, 2011 9:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby ErikaSlovakia » Sun Sep 13, 2009 1:31 am

My BP is OK with 5 mg in the morning.
I am still having problems with my pulse. I was doing quite simple physical activity only for 3 minutes and it is 125.
I hope it stops after the OP. My vision on the left eye is immidiately worse.
I was having these problems with Vasocardin as well and without pills as well.
At least my BP is fine.
Erika
Aug. 7, 09 Doppler Ultras. in Poland, left Jugul. valve problem, RRMS since 1996, now SPMS,
- Nov.3,09: one stent in the left jug. vein in Katowice, Poland, LDN, never on DMDs
- Jan. 19, 11: control venography in Katowice - negative but I feel worse
ErikaSlovakia
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Re: Lisinopril and CSVI patient

Postby Cece » Sat Sep 10, 2011 4:50 pm

another thread on lisinopril

www.thisisms.com/forum/drug-pipeline-f13/topic7897.html

Thinking about Dr. Gilhooly's recent assertion that CCSVI could as well be called CCSVH (chronic cerebrospinal venous hypertension) as well as Dr. Tucker's work showing that when a reflux wave meets an incoming wave there may be a focal point of combined pressure, does this mean that antihypertensive drugs would be of use?
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Re: Lisinopril and CSVI patient

Postby euphoniaa » Sun Sep 11, 2011 7:02 am

Post deleted as no longer relevant because this is an OLD thread from 2 years ago.
Last edited by euphoniaa on Sun Sep 11, 2011 7:33 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Lisinopril and CSVI patient

Postby Cece » Sun Sep 11, 2011 7:10 am

I was looking for information on lisoniprol which is why I bumped both Erika's thread (from two years ago) and added the link to your thread with all your links! Apologies for any confusion. I too wish Erika better health.

I am still wondering, if CCSVI creates focal points of hypertension in the veins or capillaries of the brain, would a global antihypertensive like lisoniprol be of use? I'm still trying to think through Daflon and if it would help or hurt.
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Re: Lisinopril and CSVI patient

Postby euphoniaa » Sun Sep 11, 2011 7:20 am

Deleted post for the same reason.
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Re: Lisinopril and CSVI patient

Postby Cece » Sun Sep 11, 2011 7:46 am

It was because of MarkW's suggestion that, instead of starting too many new threads, we continue older threads, that I tried! Don't think it worked well this time around.
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