Blood flow and remission in MS: a new interpretation

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Blood flow and remission in MS: a new interpretation

Postby fernando » Wed Oct 07, 2009 2:18 pm

Blood flow and remission in MS: a new interpretation of historic observations


Duration
30/01/2006 to 02/01/2009
Category
cause of MS,
Sub-category
electrophysiology,
Grant number
824
Institution
King’s College London
Researcher
Prof. K.J. Smith
Amount funded
£114,515

MS results in intense inflammation within the brain and spinal cord, and there is increasing evidence that this can directly cause conduction and neurological deficits. This PhD project explores the hypothesis that the deficits arise because the nerve fibres passing through inflammatory lesions are relatively starved of oxygen and glucose. The hypothesis is strongly supported by historical evidence, currently largely forgotten, that drugs that open blood vessels (e.g. amyl nitrite) can restore function in MS within an hour. This study proposes to explore the mechanisms underlying such phenomena using several different experimental inflammatory and/or demyelinating models, focusing on the oxygen concentration within the lesions. First, the distribution of oxygen within the lesion will be mapped using electrophysiological and morphological methods. Second, the oxygen supply to lesions will be modulated while observing the consequences on both the oxygen concentration within the lesion, and on the success of axonal conduction through the lesion. In addition, the oxygen and nutrient demand within the lesion will be increased by repetitive electrical stimulation, and the ability of the lesion and its vascular supply to maintain oxygen homeostasis will be determined. Finally, the functional consequences of manipulating blood flow and/or oxygen concentrations in experimental models will also be determined, to explore the feasibility of using modern drugs to develop a new symptomatic therapy for MS.


Maybe those in the UK could contact:

Professor Kenneth Smith

Professor Kenneth Smith is Professor of Neurophysiology at Department of Neuroimmunology, King’s College, London.

http://www.mssociety.org.uk/research/research_we_fund/grant_824.html
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Postby LR1234 » Wed Oct 07, 2009 2:52 pm

Ok Fernando, will contact him tomorrow

L x
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Postby cheerleader » Wed Oct 07, 2009 3:27 pm

LR1234 wrote:Ok Fernando, will contact him tomorrow

L x


Nice find, Fernando!

Contact him, Leanne! As an aside, I included some of his research in my endothelial health program last year...he's been looking at nitric oxide disruption in MS, and the blood's role for awhile. If he hasn't heard about CCSVI, I'm sure he'll be very intrigued!

Professor Kenneth Smith of Kings College in London has been
researching the consequences of neuroinflammation and NO on the
properties of neural axons. “His groupsʼ research has focused on the
inflammatory mediator nitric oxide, which he believes to play an important
role in causing axonal degeneration in multiple sclerosis. Nitric oxide is
produced in high concentrations in multiple sclerosis lesions and the
group has found that axons become very vulnerable to degeneration if
they are conducting trains of impulses while exposed to nitric oxide.”
“Blood vessels run through our brain and spinal cord and supply oxygen
and other nutrients, and the lining of those blood vessels constitutes a
biochemical barrier to protect the central nervous system from toxins,
inflammatory cells, red blood cells, blood products, and a variety of other
potential toxic insults.

http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=123456602210

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dx dual jugular vein stenosis (CCSVI) 4/09
http://ccsviinms.blogspot.com
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Postby Jamie » Wed Oct 07, 2009 4:37 pm

Make it so Leanne!

Cheers Fernando!
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Postby mrhodes40 » Wed Oct 07, 2009 4:56 pm

Great find Fernando!

Remember when a TIMSer recently reported that a neurologist made an expert comment regarding Zamboni's research and his finding that people in acute exacerbation recovered in 4 hours to 4 days?

The doctor's comment was that he did not see how it was possible that neurologic deficits could turn around in hours or days; thus effectively calling the Zamboni report of recovery false, incorrect, or misleading.

Obviously the Zamboni procedure as described would restore blood flow instantaneously, so you would have recovery of oxygen to affected tissues.....

exactly as the amyl nitrite does
The hypothesis is strongly supported by historical evidence, currently largely forgotten, that drugs that open blood vessels (e.g. amyl nitrite) can restore function in MS within an hour.


SO that is the answer to that. Apparently neurologists in general are not aware of this historical information as the paper said....

It is difficult to convince someone of something when they hold as true facts from the outset that may not be true such as "Symptom exacerbations represent demyelination and nerve loss that cannot be reversed in hours or days."

it just makes it very hard for them and for the new idea to be heard
I'm not offering medical advice, I am just a patient too! Talk to your doctor about what is best for you...
http://www.thisisms.com/ftopic-7318-0.html This is my regimen thread
http://www.ccsvibook.com Read my book published by McFarland Health topics
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Postby MrSuccess » Wed Oct 07, 2009 7:58 pm

I understand the Theory all right . What concerns me are the stories of quick and strong symptom improvements . And apparently others are somewhat surprised at the rapid recovery stories also.

This CCSVI theory is reaching an important tipping point. I fear that some recipients of this amazing discovery - or their caregivers - are not accurately describing their improvements.

This only makes the skeptics ...more so. And that will make it more difficult to get CCSVI some traction.

If I may , I would suggest that stent/balloon patients follow the lead of MrRhodes. She is very honest in her updates. And reports improvements and setbacks and her disappointments. I appreciate the honesty.

If anyone out there thinks that reporting outlandish improvements after CCSVI repair will open closed doors ......it won't.

Let's proceed with some caution . No steps backwards , okay ?



Mr. Success [ living in fear of ...Sunday School teachers..loaded for bear :wink: ]
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Postby zap » Wed Oct 07, 2009 8:12 pm

Wow.

It's hard not think you're simply trolling at this point, "Mr. Success."

It would b one thing to suggest that patients are experiencing some kind of placebo effect - quite another to suggest that people are actually lying ...

:evil:
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Postby radeck » Wed Oct 07, 2009 8:33 pm

Seems like M.S. doesn't know the difference between relapsing and progressive MS.

Back to topic, has anybody tried this substance that yields remission within one hour?
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Postby skydog » Wed Oct 07, 2009 8:49 pm

Blood Flow !!! Everything here stems from these two words. I can honestly attest to walking unaided the morning after surgery through a 94 degree parking lot and back to our car. Never felt so good in years. I can also say I now feel like crap and owe that to no flow from re stenosis. Doesn't get any more honest than living with the ups and downs of Blood Flow. This site breeds honesty and always will. Unbiased comments and open research by patients. Couldn't ask for much more. Honestly, Mark Yes! back on topic please I would love the drug that could restore blood flow...
Plant a BIG Garden Live in the Moment
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Postby MrSuccess » Wed Oct 07, 2009 10:06 pm

Skydog , I have been reading your posts. I don't see any outlandish claims . Your honesty is noted. I am sad to hear of your relapse. It looked like you were on your way to good health. Your situation reminds me of those in Italy , some patients revert . Then they were treated again and they improved....I hope that is your story soon. Get back in the saddle.

Zap , I am offering an opinion . I am certain others share my view . Feel free to disagree . Have you ever heard/seen an interview and wondered why the person interviewing seems to avoid the tough questions ?

Well , that's what I'm doing . Asking TOUGH and UNPOPULAR questions.

That has some value , my friend. Yes -Men are dangerous. I'm not one.


Incidentally , those Internet Scientist's are sure in abundance these days
Nice to see them here instead of in the Lab. What a gift ! :twisted:


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Postby radeck » Thu Oct 08, 2009 5:33 pm

To clarify my comment to you mrsuccess, I think you have to recognize that Zamboni's patients recovered from RELAPSES within 4 hours to 4 days, while those here who reported problems with stents are talking about going back to symptoms they had agglomerated during the PROGRESSIVE phase of MS, or of new symptoms (such as accessory nerve damage) they obtained through the surgery. So there is not really a disagreement here and no necessity to suspect dishonesty, as you did.

So, has anybody heard more details about amyl nitrite?? Are its effects in any way similar to Niacin, which causes a very noticeable flush? The claim of a 1 hour recovery time (from relapse, I presume) seem...interesting...
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Postby mrhodes40 » Thu Oct 08, 2009 5:53 pm

Amyl nitrite, in common with other alkyl nitrites,[3] is a potent vasodilator, i.e., it expands blood vessels, resulting in lowering of the blood pressure. Alkyl nitrites function as a source of nitric oxide, which signals for relaxation of the involuntary muscles. Physical effects include decrease in blood pressure, headache, flushing of the face, increased heart rate, dizziness, and relaxation of involuntary muscles, especially the blood vessel walls and the anal sphincter. There are no withdrawal symptoms. Overdose symptoms include nausea, emesis (vomiting), hypotension, hypoventilation, dyspnea (shortness of breath), and syncope (fainting). The effects set in very quickly, typically within a few seconds and disappearing soon after (within a minute).


this is not a drug that people could take. It would likely be used only in research settings for the question of what does increased blood flow do to relapses. The nitro types things often impact the blood vessels. In a heart patient nitroglycerin is what they take if they get angina (heart pain). Many older people used keep a tiny bottle of nitro in their person at all times if they had a lot of angina. These days we try to open up the blood flow some way so that they don't live like that any more...
but amyl nitrite could not be a drug people could take regularly.

What I find incredible is that that piece of information got lost in time, like why do they not give us that in the hospital along with steroids or something? how did that piece just disappear off the radar?

I think this goes back to the fact that in the 50's they thought MS was a blood flow problem and they tried some of the (limited) technology they had back then (like amyl nit.) and did not get a lot of long term success, so the autoimmune materials ended up looking more promising.
I'm not offering medical advice, I am just a patient too! Talk to your doctor about what is best for you...
http://www.thisisms.com/ftopic-7318-0.html This is my regimen thread
http://www.ccsvibook.com Read my book published by McFarland Health topics
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Postby mose » Thu Oct 08, 2009 6:10 pm

MrSuccess wrote:This CCSVI theory is reaching an important tipping point. I fear that some recipients of this amazing discovery - or their caregivers - are not accurately describing their improvements.


What gives you this fear? Personally, I have read of no miracles making it appear that you are simply casting aspersions.
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Postby LR1234 » Fri Oct 09, 2009 5:50 am

Hi,
I have spoken to Prof K Smith. He seems like a really good guy.
It turns out he works a lot with my neurologist! (small world)

I have given him all the information and have invited him to join us here. Fingers crossed he does.
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Postby cheerleader » Fri Oct 09, 2009 7:22 am

Great work connecting with Dr. Smith! Kings College Neuroscience Research division has been looking at the endothelium in relation to MS disease process for several years. And Dr. Smith has been at the forefront of much of this research...I know he will be interested in CCSVI-
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