Ok MRV done, are these pictures normal to you?

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Postby blitzi » Fri Oct 23, 2009 9:59 am

radeck wrote:Wikipedia entry: "[The sternocleidomastoid muscle] acts as an accessory muscle of inspiration, along with the scalene muscles of the neck."

Here we go. Since discussing my scans with Dake I tried to figure out what the muscles around my stenosis are used for and found that they contract whenever I sniff, apparently to aid holding up the windpipe. Now it so happens that I sniff a lot because of a chronic sinus infection I had for many years, and I have to use considerably more strength when inhaling through the nose than through the mouth. I seriously wonder whether this is what caused this narrowing in my case, and maybe in yours...?!


HOLY shit! I get punch to my nose when I was 15 and that on I always have something problems on my nose, it oftenly even bleeds and another nose hole is almost blocked.
and gess what? that almost blocked one is left one.... just like my left jug is more narrow

I LOL here:D this theory is sooooo good :D
Last edited by blitzi on Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby radeck » Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:01 am

And yes I sniff ALOT...


Welcome to the glorious sniffers club...

In my case there's also the problem that I'm breathing harder through the nose than mouth. Yet I usually breathe through the nose anyway, and presumably these muscles is much stronger in my case than in the average human.

I'm wondering if chronic sniffing and strong inhalation could also cause trouble to valves in that area. Apparently (Zamboni talks about this in his papers) breathing is directly related to blood flow to the heart. I wonder whether this puts stress on the valves.

How long have you had your sinus issues?
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Postby radeck » Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:11 am

blitzi wrote:
radeck wrote:Wikipedia entry: "[The sternocleidomastoid muscle] acts as an accessory muscle of inspiration, along with the scalene muscles of the neck."

Here we go. Since discussing my scans with Dake I tried to figure out what the muscles around my stenosis are used for and found that they contract whenever I sniff, apparently to aid holding up the windpipe. Now it so happens that I sniff a lot because of a chronic sinus infection I had for many years, and I have to use considerably more strength when inhaling through the nose than through the mouth. I seriously wonder whether this is what caused this narrowing in my case, and maybe in yours...?!


HOLY shit! I get punch to my nose when I was 15 and that on I always have something problems on my nose, it oftenly even bleeds and another nose hole is almost blocked.
and gess what? that almost blocked one is left one.... just like my left jug is more narrow

I LOL here:D this theory is sooooo good :D


Wow! Perhaps because my sniffing and hard inhaling is due to some old infection and therefore bilateral, my stenosis are bilateral too. I've had the sinus problem for at least 5 years.

I believe there have been other TIMS'ers with only narrowings low down. Does anybody remember who they were? We should ask if they had similar inspiration problems to compare to our cases!

I believe what the muscle does is to hold the windpipe open during inhalation.

The human body is an amazing interwoven structure, and I may just be punished for ignoring a problem in one part of it for many years, not thinking it could affect another...

It would of course be brutal to treat this narrowing with stents, if the muscle is indeed the reason. I'll send an email to Dr. Dake to ask him about his opinion.
Last edited by radeck on Sat Dec 19, 2009 1:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby blitzi » Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:12 am

How long have you had your sinus issues?


Some level almost hole my life that I can remember, I am 30 now.
And even more since I got that punch to my nose when I was 15.

So long, very long
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Postby radeck » Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:19 am

Do you have any troubles with inhaling in general?

I wonder if this mechanism is part of the reason that some MS people who go on the ABx protocol against Cpn and Mpn have good success, because they loose chronic sinusitis, breathe more easily, and stop sniffing. I almost feel silly to think that something as simple as that could be part of the reason.

Calling out to all TIMS'ers with low down narrowing: have you had chronic inspiration problems, sinus issues, etc, and sniff a lot and/or have a harder time inhaling through your nose than through your mouth? Perhaps I'll start a separate thread to collect more data points...
Last edited by radeck on Sat Dec 19, 2009 1:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby zap » Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:39 am

Oh, very interesting. Add me to the chronic blocked nasal inhalation club - and let me throw in these links (which I found while exploring the physiology of yawning) - let me know if it is interesting to anyone else!

http://baillement.com/echographie.html

http://www.springerlink.com/content/q48r018j45152321/
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Postby bestadmom » Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:43 am

No nasal/sinus issues for me - other than surgically induced deviated septum which was`surigically fixed. Sorry. No yawning issues either.
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Postby MaggieMae » Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:45 am

None for my husband either.
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Postby radeck » Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:50 am

Bestadmom and MaggieMae, just to be sure, you/your husband have LOW jugular vein stenosies? I don't expect this to matter in the case of stenosies high up (I think some including Dr. Dake believe that these could be at least in some cases caused by inflamed lymph nodes).
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Postby bestadmom » Fri Oct 23, 2009 11:25 am

I have not seen Dr. Dake to know where my stenosis is. I as part of SUNY Buffalo's test but do not have results. I hope to soon.
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Postby radeck » Fri Oct 23, 2009 12:18 pm

bestadmom wrote:I have not seen Dr. Dake to know where my stenosis is. I as part of SUNY Buffalo's test but do not have results. I hope to soon.


The most common area for the stenosis in the jugulars (at least according to Dr. Dake's experiences) is high up in the jugulars. However here I'm wondering in particular if there's a correlation between LOW jugular vein narrowing (above the clavicle/collar bone) and chronic sinusitis or other breathing difficulties.
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Postby zap » Fri Oct 23, 2009 12:51 pm

If I have low stenoses when tested in early Dec, it will be interesting! Perhaps there is no correlation, but worth pondering.
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your mrv

Postby chiromom1 » Sat Feb 13, 2010 7:36 pm

This looks exactly like mine....Strange indeed. I am awaiting my results.
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Postby CureIous » Sat Feb 13, 2010 9:20 pm

blitzi wrote:
HOLY shit! I get punch to my nose when I was 15 and that on I always have something problems on my nose, it oftenly even bleeds and another nose hole is almost blocked.
and gess what? that almost blocked one is left one.... just like my left jug is more narrow

I LOL here:D this theory is sooooo good :D


Me too, over a girl haha. Cept was 14, still got problems there. I mean the nose not the girl....

What an intriguing thread, makes one wonder about a possible sleep apnea connection too, same muscles involved. You can see the crookedness of my nose passages on MRI.
RRMS Dx'd 2007, first episode 2004. Bilateral stent placement, 3 on left, 1 stent on right, at Stanford August 2009. Watch my operation video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwc6QlLVtko, Virtually symptom free since, no relap
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