Inclined Bed Therapy

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Postby AndrewKFletcher » Fri Nov 20, 2009 1:56 pm

Thanks for letting us know you are trialing inclined therapy or I.T.

Make sure the whole bed tilts from head to toe.

keep your old glasses prescriptions as these are going to be useful for comparison.

Around 2 weeks of I.T. you might begin to feel pain and discomfort, even a stiff neck and muscles aching as if you have been working out.

Around 4 weeks you should be able to identify some changes, perhaps not long term ms problems but something.

Around 4 months is the time the therapy really begins to work. Ironically it takes 4 months for a damaged / severed optic nerve in fish and frog to regenerate. Could be a coincidence but suspect the timescale being so close might be following a pattern.

Also 4 months for people with spinal cord injury to begin to notice changes.

2 friends on my facebook account are spinal cord injured and are reporting significant changes back to me. Another has recently tilted his bed and is expected to follow similar improvements from sci.
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Postby jamit » Fri Nov 20, 2009 2:40 pm

I started inclining the bed 12 years ago and did it for 6 years, improved bladder function, less neck and back stiffness and ache better sleep. In fact I found then that inclining the bed gave me the same benefits as LDN so I stopped LDN since it gave me insomnia and went back on Avonex.

After those 6 years I had 5 years of flatbedding it and have progressed substantially, coincidence who knows. At any rate I am back to inclining, it works for me.
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Re: I'm giving IBT a try starting tonite

Postby ErikaSlovakia » Fri Nov 20, 2009 11:46 pm

Ruthless67 wrote:Also Andrew you said, "In another thread long before you (Erika) tilted your bed and long before your surgery, I mentioned the dramatic improvements in two ladies with supposedly irreversible optic nerve damage." so that is something I will watch for because my left eye has damage from optic neuritis that I also have been told is irreversible. The vision is blurred, seems darker, like a cloudy day and colors are off.
I'll report back any noticeable changes or improvements.
Lora
[/quote]
Hi Lora,
I have tilted my bed 15 days before the procedure. Couple of days after the procedure I had about 15% better vision when I look far. The text is still as bad as before. I only think this was because of the procedure not because of the bed but I can not be sure of course.
I am not the best test person for IBT testing because my procedure was 15 days after I started.
But I am sure IBT works for my morning headache and for nausea. It worked before the procedure as well.
I woke up this morning with the same problems.
The other improvements after the procedude remain.
Erika
Aug. 7, 09 Doppler Ultras. in Poland, left Jugul. valve problem, RRMS since 1996, now SPMS,
- Nov.3,09: one stent in the left jug. vein in Katowice, Poland, LDN, never on DMDs
- Jan. 19, 11: control venography in Katowice - negative but I feel worse
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Postby ErikaSlovakia » Fri Nov 20, 2009 11:50 pm

AndrewKFletcher wrote:
keep your old glasses prescriptions as these are going to be useful for comparison.

Around 4 months is the time the therapy really begins to work. Ironically it takes 4 months for a damaged / severed optic nerve in fish and frog to regenerate. Could be a coincidence but suspect the timescale being so close might be following a pattern.


Hi Andrew, I know this was for Lora, I just wanted to say that my vision problem/optic nerve can not be fixed with any glasses.
Erika
Aug. 7, 09 Doppler Ultras. in Poland, left Jugul. valve problem, RRMS since 1996, now SPMS,
- Nov.3,09: one stent in the left jug. vein in Katowice, Poland, LDN, never on DMDs
- Jan. 19, 11: control venography in Katowice - negative but I feel worse
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Raised Bed Survey John and Jean Simkins MSRC 1997

Postby AndrewKFletcher » Sat Nov 21, 2009 2:58 am

http://s209.photobucket.com/albums/bb31 ... /?start=20

Hi Erika

Regarding sight improvements and Inclined Therapy.

Read the full report from the Multiple Sclerosis Resource Centre (MSRC) on above link, 11 pages. Take into account that some of the people interviewed did not have any sight problems and all of those that had ms related sight problems improved.

The prescription record should show the level of your sight, which could add validity to any observations you make later regarding improvement or deterioration.

In the report John discounted one person who had not been sleeping inclined for over 7 months. Why did he make this rule? Could it be that he was scared to show the true results in his report? He admited that he "softened his own report" because it looked far too positive!

In other words, could he have realised this therapy as a threat to the charity he worked for?

Was it a coincidence that the now curent manager featured on the youtube video from the MSRC called me out of the blue to tell me that he was not scared of me? then put the phone down leaving me bewildered!

Why didn't a charity that collects money for multiple sclerosis research provide the study that they promised? Why did the multiple sclerosis society fail to attend a meeting with us in London after we travelled 400 miles round trip to a pre arranged appointment with supposed doctors and senior charity management? And ended up talking to a telephonist who knew little about ms.

The efficacy of I.T. needs to be proven or disproved on behalf of the ms community.

And I am grateful for the help people here are giving.
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Postby AndrewKFletcher » Sat Nov 21, 2009 3:10 am

jamit wrote:I started inclining the bed 12 years ago and did it for 6 years, improved bladder function, less neck and back stiffness and ache better sleep. In fact I found then that inclining the bed gave me the same benefits as LDN so I stopped LDN since it gave me insomnia and went back on Avonex.

After those 6 years I had 5 years of flatbedding it and have progressed substantially, coincidence who knows. At any rate I am back to inclining, it works for me.



Thank you Jamit.

How did you initially find out about Incline Therapy?

Your report is indeed very useful and shows a lot more about the efficacy of the ms drugs.

I know the inclined bed works for people with ms, but it is not for me to stand on a soap box and shout it out. Without more people with ms trialing it for themselves and passing it on to others by word of mouth progress is going to be very slow.

15 years since Roger Kirk the first person with ms tested sleeping on an inclined and found tremendous benefits. Throughout Roger and I met regularly to learn how this therapy was or was not working for him. Roger had other medical complications, including a renal transplant, yet his improvements over several years were unpresedented. He was featured in the Daily Mail and helped to recruit the volunteers for the ms pilot study reported in the Raised Bed Survey mentioned in previous post.

At this time, I thought we had done enough. 16 years after making this important discovery I still have not done enough and will probably be dead and buried before the full implications to this amazing discovery are realised.

Andrew
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Postby ErikaSlovakia » Sat Nov 21, 2009 3:20 am

AndrewKFletcher wrote:At this time, I thought we had done enough. 16 years after making this important discovery I still have not done enough and will probably be dead and buried before the full implications to this amazing discovery are realised.

Andrew

I know it is very little help for you, but Andrew, you have helped me!
Thank you!
:D
Erika
Aug. 7, 09 Doppler Ultras. in Poland, left Jugul. valve problem, RRMS since 1996, now SPMS,
- Nov.3,09: one stent in the left jug. vein in Katowice, Poland, LDN, never on DMDs
- Jan. 19, 11: control venography in Katowice - negative but I feel worse
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Postby LR1234 » Sat Nov 21, 2009 4:19 am

Hey Andrew,
My bed is still inclined and depsite my fiance moaning...it does seem to help me too x so thank-you for suggesting it.
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Postby AndrewKFletcher » Sat Nov 21, 2009 9:25 am

LR1234 wrote:Hey Andrew,
My bed is still inclined and depsite my fiance moaning...it does seem to help me too x so thank-you for suggesting it.



You are most welcome.

Inclined Therapy addresses how solutes are concentrated by evaporation, and how they migrate through the vessels and tissue driven by gravity and how this migration stimulates a return flow.

When a person is horizontal, accumulation of these solutes arise in areas of the body because gravity still pulls on them and if the vessels are horizontal, instead of moving the solutes from source to sink, the body stores and accumulates them. When people stand up in the morning from a flat bed the sudden migration of these solutes down the arteries and even down the vascular network in the wrong direction alters the pressures inside the vessels and we get a headache, nausea, dizziness and even strokes. Firemen for example dive right out of bed and into action. A long time ago I read they have a very high incidence of stroke.

What about arteriosclerosis for example? Could the horizontal posture be the cause of the accumulating deposits?

And then there’s all that iron (heavy metal) stored in the brain and nervous system playing havoc with the distribution of signals to the muscles.

Could simply tilting the bed influence it’s removal from the damaged areas and open up the nervous system for business?

Why are people with complete spinal cord injuries also exhibiting signs of recovery using inclined therapy? Coincidence?
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Postby jamit » Sat Nov 21, 2009 4:02 pm

Hi Andrew,

I remember reading about it somewhere on the web, one article was something about how the water gets to the top of trees and how animals tend to lie with their heads higher up than their bodies. From the UK as far as I remember ..you perhaps? At any rate it sounded reasonable just like the CCSVI so inclined to incline quickly.

As you say cheap to try out if one has an easy to raise bed. Now I am only half inclined because my husband is a doubter, but once all the way up I believe we will get his sinuses cleared up so he will stop snoring and he will then be a firm believer.

Thanks for all the great information and for trying to spread the "incline" despite all the doubters and proably not always pleasant remarks out there! I sure have gotten some raised eyebrows and yeah rights along the way.
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Postby ozarkcanoer » Sat Nov 21, 2009 4:10 pm

AndrewKFletcher.... My husband is a bit of a doubter too. But today he ordered a foam wedge for our queen sized bed. We gave a lot of thought to your plywood and blocks idea, but my husband thinks that the foam will the the best for our hand made bed frame (he made it himself !!!).

Anyway, it has to be custom ordered and will be here maybe on November 30 or December 1. Just before I head to Detroit to see Dr Haacke for my brain and neck imaging !!!

ozark
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Postby ErikaSlovakia » Sun Nov 22, 2009 2:53 am

ozarkcanoer wrote:AndrewKFletcher.... My husband is a bit of a doubter too.

More people mention this.
I never wanted to get married. Now I have one more reason not to do it.
I am really glad I do not have any husband :D :D :D
Yoopeee!
Erika
Aug. 7, 09 Doppler Ultras. in Poland, left Jugul. valve problem, RRMS since 1996, now SPMS,
- Nov.3,09: one stent in the left jug. vein in Katowice, Poland, LDN, never on DMDs
- Jan. 19, 11: control venography in Katowice - negative but I feel worse
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Postby AndrewKFletcher » Sun Nov 22, 2009 8:02 am

It was my wifes husband who found the cause and cure for varicose veins :)
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Postby ErikaSlovakia » Sun Nov 22, 2009 9:48 am

AndrewKFletcher wrote:It was my wifes husband who found the cause and cure for varicose veins :)

Ha-ha - this was good :D
Erika
Aug. 7, 09 Doppler Ultras. in Poland, left Jugul. valve problem, RRMS since 1996, now SPMS,
- Nov.3,09: one stent in the left jug. vein in Katowice, Poland, LDN, never on DMDs
- Jan. 19, 11: control venography in Katowice - negative but I feel worse
ErikaSlovakia
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Inclined Bed Therapy for people with multiple sclerosis

Postby AndrewKFletcher » Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:04 am

Hi Erika

How is sleeping flat compared to sleeping on an inclined bed comparing? Have you noticed a difference recently?

Best

Andrew
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