Inclined Bed Therapy

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Postby Asher » Mon Jun 21, 2010 2:28 pm

Andrew, as I posted a while ago, IBT has been great for me. I also wrote that I was on tysabri, that it did nothing for me and lately exacerbated my fatigue. As I moved into the 4th week my stamina started to pick up. This time round I decided to get of the drug. I'm in the 5th week after my last infusion, and feeling much, much better. I have no intention to resume taking drugs. I simply don't believe the autoimmune fable.

June 26 I'll be on my way to see dr. Kosteki in Poland. Hopefully I will be liberated after being found to be CCSVI positive.
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Postby blossom » Mon Jun 21, 2010 10:22 pm

i have been useing ibt about 6 mo. i have had ppms for almost 20 yrs. i was hopeing for better mobility but i am still declineing in that respect. but i have to say my feet will be like ice and they warm up much quicker. i breath much better at night and i can tell i am not snoreing much because after i got sick i snored so bad my throat would be sore in the morning. i do not wake myself up coughing. as a rule i feel my sleep is just better. i have gotten an odd pain at the base of my skull that would radiate up my head at night off and on for many yrs. as a rule i usually would notice changes for the worse when that happend. i have not gotten that pain near as much. so i will keep my bed elevated. i sleep in a hospital bed and i wonder sometimes if the way the springs or something else make it less effective.
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Postby gibbledygook » Tue Jun 22, 2010 7:48 am

I've been using the inclined bed for well over a year now and unfortunately it hasn't stopped a quite severe deterioration since the 2nd term of pregnancy which the 3rd term has done nothing to improve. But I have no swollen ankles and apparently 90% of pregnant women get swollen ankles!
3 years antibiotics, 06/09 bilateral jug stents at C1, 05/11 ballooning of both jug valves, 07/12 stenting of renal vein, azygos & jug valve ballooning,
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Postby Asher » Tue Jun 22, 2010 7:53 am

The way I see it, IBT is not a cure and it does not slow down progression. In my experience it does offer some relief from some symptoms and improves quality of life to varying degrees.
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many using IBT have reported clearer darker urine output

Postby AndrewKFletcher » Wed Jun 23, 2010 1:51 am

Urine is denser on IBT than a flat bed

Urine is denser on IBT than a flat bed and many using IBT have reported clearer darker urine output. My wife and I tested our urine density over many days, measuring it with a hydrometer. The theory behind IBT predicts Urine Density changes, hence the need to test it. What this simple experiment told us was that gravity drags salts and other minerals from the body when we are aligned with it. But it also told us that sleeping on a flat bed does not remove the salts, meaning that all the detoxification must take place during the day, because we are still evapourating water from the skin and respiratory tract irrespective of our sleeping posture. So it must follow that if the renal function is not performing as it should sleeping flat, then the blood, lymph cerebrospinal fluid and tissue fliuds are becoming denser over time. Could this then lead on to changes in pressures inside the veins that adversely alter their shape? Could this be the reason for stenosis? Could this be the reason people rising from a flat bed experience lethargy and balance problems? Could this explain the very high levels of sodium chloride and potassium in the skin of people with psoriasis? More to the point, is this why IBT greatly improves the skin of people with psoriasis and other skin conditions including acne?

If you have multiple sclerosis, you should be waking up to IBT
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Postby Miia » Wed Jun 23, 2010 2:41 am

Andrew, that's interesting. I tried IBT for 4 nights and my feet became numb and of course also my balance was very poor. Does this mean that I have so much bad things in my body that those flowed to my legs and feet and my bladder couldn't deal with all of it?

Do you know if it's normal to feel like that when starting IBT? I felt so bad I wanted to stop it immediately. I don't know what would have happened if I had kept on using IBT for longer time.
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Postby gibbledygook » Wed Jun 23, 2010 2:48 am

I believe that Zamboni, Simka et al are also interested in examining veins of the kidney, along with the left iliac and lumbar veins. I'll dig around for the link. Below on Page 135 of Dr Sclafani's forum:

drsclafani wrote:
Quote:

i will discuss this more later when i give my zamboni report, but not all ccsvi is picked up via azygous and jugular venography. I was caught by surprise on that one! but you will have to wait for an explanation of some of the negative venograms!


When I read zamboni's paper, I noted that he stated that roberto galleoti, the IR who works in ferrara, enters the left femoral vein and advances up into the azygous and the jugulars. I thought that peculiar because it is such a straighter shot up the right femoral into the jugulars and azygous.

I aske paolo what that was all about and he told me that they were looking for narrowing of the left iliac vein (a congenital narrowing called May thurner syndrome) and then were looking for hypoplasia of the lumbar veins. They also looked for narrowing of the vein of the left kidney. The light went off! That was why they entered from the left side.

Paolo, why didnt you say so in your paper, I asked. Because the editors cut it out for space reasons!

So now i will do all my catheterization from the left femoral approach, even though I dont like to.



This suggests that the kidney may be of importance to the whole disease. My Chinese herbal doctor told me I had blood stasis and needed to take Dan Shen (salvia miltiorrhiza) which is a tonic of the kidney...

Bizarrely, I have also noticed in these last few days of pregnancy and very heavy kidney work that once I have gone to bed and the bladder has voided considerable volumes of fluid, that the myoclonus becomes much less severe.

Could there be a link to kidney vein problems and the low levels of uric acid (hypouricemia) in MS?
3 years antibiotics, 06/09 bilateral jug stents at C1, 05/11 ballooning of both jug valves, 07/12 stenting of renal vein, azygos & jug valve ballooning,
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Postby AndrewKFletcher » Wed Jun 23, 2010 4:48 am

Mila

The first two weeks of IBT is generally not a good experience, aches, discomfort, stiffness have all been reported frequently during the initial stages of IBT. Some are lucky and only experience the postive effects from day one, but not many do. Some have refered to it as though they had been working out during the night and aching in the morning.

This is why it is far better to begin at a 4 inch raise for 4 weeks then raising the bed to 6-8 inches depending on length of bed.

There will be undoubtedly a huge detox in the first two weeks as salts metals and other dense substances are moved into the circulation and out through the urine.

Oedema is usally resolved quickly on IBT, but some who have a long standing oedema problem find an intial shift towards the legs, though this is temporary in most cases.
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Postby dlb » Wed Jun 23, 2010 7:24 am

Andrew,
I have been sleeping inclined since Dec, 2009 & I continue to sleep well with less headaches & less numbness in my hands. I am so grateful for that & on the occasion when I am away from home & sleeping flat, I generally wake with a headache. The one thing that concerns me is the oedema. I have noticed that I have very bad swelling in my feet & ankles. I have never experienced problems with swelling in the past. The last time I slept flat, I made a note to watch my ankles. We were away for 2 nights & my ankles were normal after only 1 night of sleeping flat but back to swelling immediately upon coming home & IBT again. What do you suggest? I guess it makes sense because I am not running to the bathroom in the middle of the night as before.... But is this a good thing then? Thanks & look forward to your thoughts
Deb
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oedema problem on IBT

Postby AndrewKFletcher » Thu Jun 24, 2010 12:56 am

Hi Deb

Your post is very interesting, in that it does not follow the normal pattern for oedema.

I have a few questions to see if we can find an answer for you.

1. The obvious thing to do is to put the bed flat while at home, taking care to mirror your normal daily routines, like sitting at the computer, using the same seating in your home. One of the main causes for oedema is poor sitting posture with pressure at the back of the thighs from the edge of the seat.
2. Observe and measure the oedema before retiring to bed, then measure same in the morning before getting out of bed.
3. Tight clothing, socks, belts, tight waist bands and even the pressure on the soles of the feet from standing too long without moving around can contribute to oedema and simple to rectify
4. Have you experienced any significant weight change?
5. Is your home area more humid that where you stayed on holiday?
6. Are you or your doctor aware of any abnormal veins in your legs that could become restricted more by the action of IBT? Looking for a collapsed vein connection.

A glass of water with half a freshly squeezed lime or lemon is an excellent diuretic. Also stinging nettle tea is another and tastes nice too.

Have you modified your seating at home so that your seat is at least level with your knees, preferably a little higher?
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Postby AndrewKFletcher » Thu Jun 24, 2010 1:19 am

Asher wrote:Andrew, as I posted a while ago, IBT has been great for me. I also wrote that I was on tysabri, that it did nothing for me and lately exacerbated my fatigue. As I moved into the 4th week my stamina started to pick up. This time round I decided to get of the drug. I'm in the 5th week after my last infusion, and feeling much, much better. I have no intention to resume taking drugs. I simply don't believe the autoimmune fable.

June 26 I'll be on my way to see dr. Kosteki in Poland. Hopefully I will be liberated after being found to be CCSVI positive.


Asher, congrats on becoming liberated from the drug cartels. MS just has to be a circulatory problem, given the evidence from IBT and Zamboni et al. Autoimmune cannot fit with the reported improvements in people with ms from either intervention.

The Posture Poll also confirms the connection between symptoms worsening, new symptom onset, sleeping flat and sitting incorrectly.

With regards to IBT not being a cure for ms, given sufficient time, IBT has been shown to reverse many symptoms permanently and greatly improve the quality of lifr for people with ms. Terri Harisson for example has remained virtually symptom free for 12 years now and I am aware of many others who have also made remarkeable progress using IBT.

So the question arises as to what exactly does a cure mean with regards to any medical condition? Could IBT provide a preventative intervention to the onset of ms symptoms? I believe it will.

Our grandaughter Amy May has been inclined since birth and her progress chart, signed by doctors and staff following regular checkups makes remarkeable viewing indeed. Her graph line has overtake all of the normal parameters of baby development showing a steep vertical line that intersects all of the pre-printed target lines. Coincidence? She is very strong and very advanced for her 7.5 months. She is not overweight either. But more to the point there is zero chance of sudden infant death syndrome on an inclined mattress, something I have been arguing since 1995.
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hyperuricemia and multiple sclerosis

Postby AndrewKFletcher » Thu Jun 24, 2010 2:06 am

Dear Gibbledygook

Thank you for alerting me to hyperuricemia, this is an area I have not yet looked into and as you say it certainly fits with the onset of neurological conditions, including ms.

The link betweek hyperuricemia and ms may already have been established, I think you have hit on something very important in people with ms. This is not something I have considered so forgive my long delay in replying to your very thought provoking post. Could increasing uric acid have a corrosive affect on scar tissue / lesions? Could it have an athroslerosis preventative effect also? Does IBT increase the level of uric acid in the blood and tissue? Does uric acid help to remove excess salts from the skin in people with psoriasis? Is this why psoriasis and other skin conditions respond favourably to IBT?

I think you have just opened another can of worms :)

Thank you so much for your post.




The ability of hyperuricemia to reduce peroxynitrite-mediated nitrotyrosine formation has been suggested to have a key role in neuroprotection in diseases such as multiple sclerosis, Parkinson's disease, stroke, and others. Epidemiological studies suggest that subjects with elevated uric acid levels have a lower frequency of multiple sclerosis, Parkinson's disease, and Alzheimer's disease, and uric acid infusions can reduce the neurological sequelae observed in experimental models (such as experimental allergic encephalomyelitis)10. More recent studies suggest that the benefit of uric acid in these conditions may relate, not to its nitrotyrosine-blocking antioxidant effects, but rather to its ability to block the blood-brain barrier, or by its effects on astroglial cells11,12. Further, one must be careful in interpretation of cross-sectional studies, because patients with impaired neurological function may tend to have lower uric acid levels due simply to poor nutrition. Nevertheless, these studies raise the interesting possibility that use of uric acid or its precursors may have benefit in some neurological diseases13.
http://www.jrheum.com/subscribers/08/05/734.html

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Beginner instructions

Postby LauraV » Sun Jul 04, 2010 12:15 pm

Andrew,

Please forgive me if this has been discussed before but I've been looking through 50 + pages of this thread and haven't found it the answer to my questions? How should I start IBT? Specifically:

1. Do you recommend starting slowly?
2. How high does the bed have to be lifted?
3. Do I have to take the casters off the foot of the bed? I have a simple metal frame. Not sure how to take them off.
4. Do I have to get lumber to do this? Are there any other options that you would recommend?
5. Is there a certain degree of angle that the bed has to be?

I have MS. I'm doing this because I'm trying to do whatever I can to help myself while I wait for CCSVI treatment to be allowed in the US. I live alone and wouldn't be able to do this myself. I can't lift my bed and cannot carry lumber in here. I would have to get my brother or a friend over hear to help me so I want to be able to explain things clearly to them.

Thank you.
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Postby AndrewKFletcher » Sun Jul 04, 2010 11:24 pm

Hi Laura
I agree that this thread has become too complicated to follow and have tried to encourage people to report their improvements on the new IBT forum but to no avail. IBT is and should remain a very simple and easy to follow pathway so will continue to keep the website open.

You will find the answers to your questions on the link provided here: http://www.andrewkfletcher.com/index.php?option=com_agora&task=forum&id=1&Itemid=30

There is also a FAQ tab on the frontpage main menu box.
It may not be perfect, but I have constructed the website to the best of my ability and hope it will help more people with ms to find some answers.

The height of the bed depends on the length of the bed. US beds are longer so consider raising an extra half inch to an inch 6.5 to 7 inches.


Slowly adjusting the angle is better for some people, though raising to the full IBT angle is something that needs to be achieved ultimately.

Another area of my research into irrigation and deserts is now taking off in a big way "at long last" with the involvement of the Fredome Charity and Herts University. Very excited about these latest developments which will inevitably take up a lot of my time.

Andrew
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Re: I.T. has been amazing for me thus far

Postby OK77 » Mon Jul 05, 2010 6:45 am

AndrewKFletcher wrote:
OK77 wrote:so, a day under 2 weeks sleeping inclined and although my walking is stiffer than usual, stretching is easier and more effective, feet are very warm at night and my troublesome left eye seems to have regained a touch of my peripheral vision, so all in all, happy days! I have been having more dreams as well, last night in particular whereby i was walking without my walking sticks displaying greatly improved balance and strength in my legs whilst strutting about with a massive grin on my face! :D

I.T. has been amazing for me thus far, long may the improvements continue!


Keep going OK77 there is more to this simple therapy than anyone can imagine.



The dreams are now few and far between, and my walking has suffered as a result of the increased blood flow and strengthening of my ligaments. What now? More patience?

oh and i'm off to Poland on Friday to get scanned/treated for CCSVI! :)
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