Inclined Bed Therapy

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Postby tzootsi » Sat Dec 05, 2009 8:22 am

Hi Andrew,
We are also in the beginning stage of trying IBT. So far, we have inclined the bed 4" for the past week, with no problems. My question is - how critical is the 6" height? Raising our bed another 2" may cause a few problems, and since we have a bookcase shelf over the bed we might have to do some major rearranging to get the full 6" without banging our heads.
I also found it interesting that the jugulars (which may be blocked), are primarily in use when supine. Other veins are used when upright. I wonder if the incline allows both sets of veins to share the drainage load?
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Why raise the bed six inches for Inclined Therapy?

Postby AndrewKFletcher » Sun Dec 06, 2009 2:35 am

An experiment was performed to determine the optimum angle for circulation.

Using a closed water filled loop of tubing with coloured salt solution added at the pillow end and the loop stretched down the bed, the bed was elevated.

The lower elevations in the range of 4-4.5 inches resulted in the salt flowing down one side and the clean water flowing back up the same side. 2 directional flow in one tube while fascinating to watch was not the desired effect.

After raising the bed to 5 inches the downward flow was in the salt added side representing the arteries and the return flow was in the opposite salt-free side representing the venous return or indeed the return flow of the cerebrospinal fluid system or the return flow of the lymphatic system.

this return flow and return is under tension and was observed using soft walled silicon tubing showing clearly how the solutes affect the pressure of the water molecules.

The downward flowing side clearly bulged outwards under the positive pressure induced by gravity, while the return flow water only side was pulled in, indicating that the molecules were placed under tension by the gravity affect on the salt dissolved in water.

Over time this has been born out by many people sleeping inclined, while a 4 inch incline is better than sleeping flat, a 6 inch / 15 cm raise producing a five degree to the horizontal on a 75 inch long bed.

Fascinating history of the bed reveals that the oldest beds know from the ancient Egyptians some 4 thousand years ago were raised by exactly 6 inches at the head end according to a curator of a museum in Boston. USA.

Question is how did they know? Did they observe animals sleeping on an incline and imitated them and then find the benefits? We will never know but it is intriguing.
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some changes already

Postby hwebb » Sun Dec 06, 2009 7:25 pm

I've been on the incline for about a week now. The numbness in my hands and lips is already improved...but I'm having more cognitive problems and my face is now numb too. It feels like the area's affected (which were quit stable)...are now "shifting". I guess the blood is pooling in a new place/s.
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Re: some changes already

Postby happy_canuck » Sun Dec 06, 2009 9:46 pm

hwebb wrote:but I'm having more cognitive problems and my face is now numb too.


Wow, hwebb, it's 8 nights for me and I haven't noticed any numbness shifts. My blood pressure has dropped and I think I am more alert, although I am just recovering froma bout of severe anemia, so the iron supplements could be helping too :-)

I will be interested in hearing more about what else happens with you because we are on about the same timeline.

~ Sandra
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I've been trying this. Wow!

Postby jgkarob » Mon Dec 07, 2009 3:02 am

What a difference this is making to my quality of sleep.
I have more energy throughout the day and we are going to get the bed up to 6 inches tonight and I think it will benefit both of us. Not just me.
I'm so pleased I read this thread.
I gave up reading New Pathways a few years ago and missed this study.
Thanks!
K Roberts
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Re: some changes already

Postby AndrewKFletcher » Tue Dec 08, 2009 2:22 am

hwebb wrote:I've been on the incline for about a week now. The numbness in my hands and lips is already improved...but I'm having more cognitive problems and my face is now numb too. It feels like the area's affected (which were quit stable)...are now "shifting". I guess the blood is pooling in a new place/s.
hwebb


Interesting observations, far too early yet to determine whther this is the settling in period or whether you are responding quicker than most to I.T.

Thanks for the update

at least 4 weeks before we will understand better. That said I suspect that there is a positive improvement in your circulation.

You could of course be having a relapse, but this is unlikely as the improvements mentioned contradict this. Time will tell

Andrew
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Re: I've been trying this. Wow!

Postby AndrewKFletcher » Tue Dec 08, 2009 2:27 am

mrsenstitz wrote:What a difference this is making to my quality of sleep.
I have more energy throughout the day and we are going to get the bed up to 6 inches tonight and I think it will benefit both of us. Not just me.
I'm so pleased I read this thread.
I gave up reading New Pathways a few years ago and missed this study.
Thanks!
K Roberts


What did John find here in Devon interviewing people with ms to cause him to state this publicly on BBC Radio?

"This is the first time in our 40 years experience that we have come across
something which actually alters bodily systems to have an effect on MS."
John Simkins, Information Executive, M.S.R.C., BBC Radio Devon, 27 October
1997
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Postby danegirl » Tue Dec 08, 2009 5:11 am

This is amazing. Yesterday my bed was lifted 12 cm in the head-end. This morning I felt a immidate result. The tingling/numb/dead feeling in my right hand was gone and it felt normal!! After just one night! I was prepared to wait months for change, but this is amazing!

Now, after some hours the tingling is back, so I can't wait to go to bed again tonight!

But it has certainly made a difference, even though it didn't last all day, but maybe the future will change that.

My bed will never be level again, and I slept like a baby!
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to Andrew

Postby hwebb » Tue Dec 08, 2009 10:21 pm

Thanks Andrew. I hope I'm not relapsing. I'm doing everything I can to prevent relapse (on copoxane, following a strict low saturated fat diet with Omega 3 supplementation), got my vitamin D level up...and have my bed tilted now too.

My facial numbness and brain fog are improving slightly again. Have tried to contact the neurologist to get another course of steriods, but he hasnt returned my message.

hwebb
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Postby AndrewKFletcher » Wed Dec 09, 2009 1:51 am

HWEBB

This is probably due to Inclined Therapy and not a realapse. Sounds to me like the nerves are being stimulated sooner than expected for yu.

So if possible ride out the discomfort for a few weeks.

Many people with ms have had increased pain, shooting pains, sensation moving from one area to another, tingling sensations, and each time some improvements follow, so not necesarily a negative.

Andrew
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Postby AndrewKFletcher » Wed Dec 09, 2009 2:08 am

danegirl wrote:This is amazing. Yesterday my bed was lifted 12 cm in the head-end. This morning I felt a immidate result. The tingling/numb/dead feeling in my right hand was gone and it felt normal!! After just one night! I was prepared to wait months for change, but this is amazing!

Now, after some hours the tingling is back, so I can't wait to go to bed again tonight!

But it has certainly made a difference, even though it didn't last all day, but maybe the future will change that.

My bed will never be level again, and I slept like a baby!


This happened a number of times in the pilot study. From day one several people reported huge improvements.

Make sure you keep your hands down at night as having them up by your face can cause numbness and tingling in people who don't have a neurological condition.

My wife and I have found this happening before we realised what we were doing wrong :)

But if you think about this, it proves the gravity link for the nervous system.

Can't wait to read your next post to see if the improvements are there :)

Thanks for sharing your post.

:D
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Postby Shannon » Wed Dec 09, 2009 6:33 am

Ah, so glad you mentioned that. This is why my arms are weak and I feel like I can't hold them up for very long. I slept with them up rather than down. I always have numbness, but the weakness is new. Thanks!
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Postby danegirl » Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:52 am

Today, after the second night of IBT, it was the same as yesterday. My hand felt completely normal this morning, and it lasted for some hours.

Another thing. As I made my bed this morning, I stood up shortly, and I think my balance was better. It might be whishfull thinking or placebo, but I THINK I could stand for some seconds, without swaying as usual.

This after only two days (nights ) of IBT.

Can't wait to see where this is going, it's small improvements, yes, but for me they are HUGE!!

Also I noticed, that my urin both mornings has been "muddy" and not looked as usual.

During the X-mas holidays, I will have my son saw off the "rear" legs of my bed, so it will be inclined permanentely. It's 12 cm inclined now - we will make it 15 cm when he comes. Never again a level bed for me!

I am not sure I can sleep with my arms down. I always sleep with my hands curled up under my chin, it is just the way I feel comfortable. Even if I consiously put my arms down alongside my body, I think, that in the same moment I fall asleep, my hands will come up again on their own. I'll try, let's see.

And I sleep like a baby!
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Postby hwebb » Wed Dec 09, 2009 2:31 pm

thanks for the message of support Andrew. My neurologist called me, and we agreed to wait for 3 days to see if I was improving before considering more steroid therapy. And I am improving again :)

Talking to my neuro...we were discussing any changes which may have occurred recently. I mentioned that I used a decongestant nasal spray as had a persistent sinus problem. I've used this spray before...but this time when I used it I got heart palpitations. I can't remember if my face numbness started before or after I used that spray (cause I'm having memory problems). But anyway...my neuro said I should stay away from that particular spray, as it causes vaso-constriction.

As you are all aware...that's the last thing anyone with MS needs. Wonder if it triggered my recent days of problems.

I agree with sleeping with the arms down. When I had my first serious MS attack...it was confined to my hands and I was referred to a repetitive-strain-injury specialist. When we thought I had RSI...I was told to sleep with my arms straight (binding them straight if need be), as this would help with my "irritated nerves". And I did see quite an improvement (just bandaged each arm to a wooden spoon...you can also wrap them in towels to you wake if you try to bend your arms).

Anyway - that's my tip for the day. Arm binding...and avoiding medicated nasal decongestants (though I'm sure salt-water sprays are fine)
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Video Diary of Inclined Therapy Experience

Postby AndrewKFletcher » Wed Dec 09, 2009 3:22 pm

May I suggest / ask is anyone making a video diary of your experiences? adding a voice and a face to what is happening to you since tilting your bed would be very influencial, or if you want to keep it to yourself it would undoubtedly help you to remember how things were in 4 months time.

Andrew :idea:
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