Low jugular stenosis, SCM muscle, and inspiration

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Low jugular stenosis, SCM muscle, and inspiration

Postby radeck » Tue Oct 27, 2009 9:06 am

Collapses low down in the jugular veins, one-sided (unilateral) or both-sided (bilateral) is the second most common type of blockage found by Dr. Dake. They are above the clavicle/collar bone, at the intersection of sternocleidomastoid (SCM) muscle and jugular vein. The SCM muscle is an accessory muscle of inspiration, i.e. it helps holding up the windpipe when you inhale. In another thread (http://www.thisisms.com/ftopict-8518.html
) we consequently had some discussion as to whether this narrowing could be more likely in someone with year-long chronic congestions of the nasal passages, forcing this person to breathe in more heavily. I have had chronically congested sinuses for around 10 years, and am often mucousy although I haven't had an acute cold for a long time. I am used to sniffing about once a minute. When you sniff you can actually feel the SCM contracting, which is how I became aware of the possible connection. It turned out that blitzi, who started the other thread, had an injury causing him to inhale heavily/sniff for 15 years on the side where he also happens to have his collapses.

Now at the risk that this may go nowhere, it would be great if all of you with LOW jugular collapses (the high, ear level, stenoses most folks have been diagnosed with fall in a different category) could let us all know whether these are one- or two-sided and whether you have had any hard time inhaling or sniffing that lasted for several years before you first came down with MS symptoms? Thanks.
Last edited by radeck on Mon Jan 04, 2010 7:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Loobie » Tue Oct 27, 2009 11:18 am

Put me in that camp.
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Postby mrhodes40 » Tue Oct 27, 2009 11:43 am

The SCM muscle is an accessory muscle of inspiration, i.e. it helps holding up the windpipe when you inhale.


I am sorry but this is incorrect. "Accessory" means secondary or backup in this case.

The accessory muscles are not used in normal respiration they are only needed for respiration in certain types of respiratory problems/illness.

OTOH SNIFFING may qualify as a problem that uses this accessory (it surely seems to)

But I HAVE to point out that your body is full of muscles that get heavy use and are very strongly contracted repeatedly...have you seen some weight lifter's necks?

It is compelling to imagine that the SCM is just too tight and the cause of all this, but there are probably other factors.

May-Thurner is a deal where the iliac vein is compressed by the iliac artery in some people this results in deep vein thrombosis in the left leg. BUT there is a congenital issue there first........

maybe this will be true of these lower jug issues. Certainly the early histology is that these veins are different, so it is probably not just the muscles...
I'm not offering medical advice, I am just a patient too! Talk to your doctor about what is best for you...
http://www.thisisms.com/ftopic-7318-0.html This is my regimen thread
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Postby radeck » Tue Oct 27, 2009 11:53 am

Thanks for the clarification Marie. It seems likely to me that the muscle is to blame, since AFAIK there is nothing else in that area that crosses with the jugulars, and it seems unlikely that the veins are narrowed on both sides at the same height without external forces being applied. Yes, sniffing is enough to cause it to contract. I can clearly feel it and see it in the mirror. But it could be that the muscles are enlarged for some other reason, as you suggest.
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Postby mrhodes40 » Tue Oct 27, 2009 12:13 pm

I suspect a couple of decades from now it will be clear that there is a plethora of ways that these veins can be harmed. I know that Sharon's daughter had her jug smashed up against a bone to the point it was stuck on there... and Lew had a "bucket handle" jug on one side, and someone else not on TIMS has a jugular that encircles the brachiocephalic.........

We are going to have a hard time making hard and fast rules about this and putting it into a box. :lol:
I'm not offering medical advice, I am just a patient too! Talk to your doctor about what is best for you...
http://www.thisisms.com/ftopic-7318-0.html This is my regimen thread
http://www.ccsvibook.com Read my book published by McFarland Health topics
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