EGCG, iron and the brain

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

EGCG, iron and the brain

Postby cheerleader » Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:36 pm

Ursula, our German EGCG trial participant posted over in the Drug Pipeline
http://www.thisisms.com/ftopict-8578.html

Wanted to make sure all CCSVI stento-teers and CCSVI curious knew about the iron chelating properties of EGCG (green tea extract)- thanks to Sharon for pointing this out again to Ursula-
Jeff's been on it for a year or so, as part of the endothelial health program. As we learn more about iron deposition in MS, it makes alot of sense to consider this supplement-

Green tea catechins as brain-permeable, natural iron chelators-antioxidants for the treatment of neurodegenerative disorders
Silvia Mandel *, Tamar Amit, Lydia Reznichenko, Orly Weinreb, Moussa B. H. Youdim
Eve Topf and US NPF Centers for Neurodegenerative diseases and Department of Pharmacology, Faculty of Medicine, Technion, Haifa, Israel. Fax: +972-4-851-3145
email: Silvia Mandel (mandel@tx.technion.ac.il)
*Correspondence to Silvia Mandel, Eve Topf and US NPF Centers for Neurodegenerative diseases and Department of Pharmacology, Faculty of Medicine, Technion, Haifa, Israel. Fax: +972-4-851-3145

KEYWORDS
(-)-epigallocatechin-3-gallate • Flavonoid • Hypoxia • Neurodegeneration • Parkinson's disease
ABSTRACT
Neurodegeneration in Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, or other neurodegenerative diseases appears to be multifactorial, where a complex set of toxic reactions, including oxidative stress (OS), inflammation, reduced expression of trophic factors, and accumulation of protein aggregates, lead to the demise of neurons. One of the prominent pathological features is the abnormal accumulation of iron on top of the dying neurons and in the surrounding microglia. The capacity of free iron to enhance and promote the generation of toxic reactive oxygen radicals has been discussed numerous times. The observations that iron induces aggregation of inert -synuclein and beta-amyloid peptides to toxic aggregates have reinforced the critical role of iron in OS-induced pathogenesis of neurodegeneration, supporting the notion that a combination of iron chelation and antioxidant therapy may be one significant approach for neuroprotection. Tea flavonoids (catechins) have been reported to possess divalent metal chelating, antioxidant, and anti-inflammatory activities, to penetrate the brain barrier and to protect neuronal death in a wide array of cellular and animal models of neurological diseases. This review aims to shed light on the multipharmacological neuroprotective activities of green tea catechins with special emphasis on their brain-permeable, nontoxic, transitional metal (iron and copper)-chelatable/radical scavenger properties.

link
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Postby Pepe » Sat Nov 07, 2009 4:39 am

Very interesting Joan...

Andrew Hall Cutler Ph.D. is a well known expert in mercury chelation therapy and talking about the relationship between tea and iron says in a message:

"Adding anything with calcium to the tea reduces its ability to trap
iron - this is one reason adding a dash of milk is popular."

In his book "Hair test Interpretation: Finding Hidden Toxicities" says:
"The most effective intervetions for high iron are eliminate red meat and high iron foods from the diet, and give blood frecuently."

"Googleling" this morning I discovered that Desferrioxamine (injectable medication) and Deferasirox (oral medication) are two medicaments against high iron.

I am not a Doctor so I do not know... but I imagine that the problem migth be: How lowering the brain iron concentrations without lowering the optimun iron level of the rest of the body?
Pepe.
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Postby sou » Sat Nov 07, 2009 5:06 am

Just fix the leak by opening the veins.

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Postby jay123 » Sat Nov 07, 2009 7:22 am

Cheer,
How's Jeff's overall iron? Is there a way to get rid of the brain/spinal iron while laving the required iron in the blood?
I have done a lot of looking in to this but seem to get a lot of confusing info, but thats the internet!
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Postby cheerleader » Sat Nov 07, 2009 10:04 am

jay123 wrote:Cheer,
How's Jeff's overall iron? Is there a way to get rid of the brain/spinal iron while laving the required iron in the blood?
I have done a lot of looking in to this but seem to get a lot of confusing info, but thats the internet!


Jeff's serum iron levels have always been normal- EGCG does not get rid of iron in serum, it binds to the iron that has been deposited into tissue by reflux- it's this "free iron" which causes nitric oxide disruption and oxidative stress. This is the iron we want to chelate...we don't want iron poor blood. Make sense?
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Postby sou » Sat Nov 07, 2009 10:43 am

Low blood iron would deprive precious oxygen from our already poorly oxygenated nervous systems.

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Postby Loobie » Sat Nov 07, 2009 11:13 am

Will just drinking it be enough, or do we need the extract because it's more concentrated?
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Postby cheerleader » Sat Nov 07, 2009 11:28 am

Loobie wrote:Will just drinking it be enough, or do we need the extract because it's more concentrated?


Hey Lew-
Here's what they used in Ursula's trial in Berlin-
Drug: epigallocatechin-gallate EGCG(Sunphenon)
200 mg twice daily, after 3 months 400 mg twice daily

http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT00525668

Jeff takes one 350 mg a day capsule (Source Naturals)
A cup of green tea has roughly 40mgs, some have as much as 100-
so, unless you drink 3-4 cups a day, a supplement might be better.
cheer
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http://ccsviinms.blogspot.com
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Postby radeck » Sat Nov 07, 2009 11:46 am

Lew, NSI makes a caffein-free extract that's pretty potent, i.e. 150 mg EGCG per capsule and at a reduced price:

http://www.vitacost.com/NSI-Teavigo-tra ... 5003004034

I've been taking it for a few weeks now.

If you want to get it in the most potent form from tea directly, matcha (japanese sencha powder) is probably the purest way to go, however matcha is expensive and I'm not sure the caffeine is good for folks like us.
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Postby questor » Sat Nov 07, 2009 1:08 pm

I just picked up an EGCG supplement today, as I was anxious to add it to my regimen for its iron chelation properties.

I'm still on coumadin (hopefully only two more days), and thought I'd best do a quick check to see if there was anything on the web warning about its use with blood thinners. Looks like it might be best to wait until one is off coumadin before starting an EGCG supplement:

Coumadin and EGCG

You certainly shouldn't believe everything you read on the web, but I think I'll wait until after I stop blood-thinners before I start on EGCG. Same consideration applies to ginkgo biloba, apparently. I've been off ginkgo for about 3 months now in preparation for the Stanford experience, and am anxious to restart ginkgo next week.

--Tracy
CCSVI Procedure 9/16/2009 at Stanford
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Postby Loobie » Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:19 pm

Thanks guys, I'll pick some up on Monday as the Bucks are on right now and the vit. store isn't open on Sundays!

Tracy,

Looks like we'll meet again! Hopefully under better circumstances! You were about an hour into your room and you were hurting pretty bad last time we met. This time let's sit down and look at each other pain free!
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Re: EGCG, iron and the brain

Postby NHE » Sat Nov 07, 2009 10:24 pm

radeck wrote:If you want to get it in the most potent form from tea directly, matcha (japanese sencha powder) is probably the purest way to go, however matcha is expensive


For anyone who might be a Costco member... They sell matcha green tea manufactured by Ito En. A box of 100 1.5g tea bags is $12.69 which is a pretty good deal considering that Ito En wants $1/tea bag on their web site.

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Postby mrhodes40 » Sun Nov 08, 2009 8:48 am

A box of 100 1.5g tea bags is $12.69 which is a pretty good deal considering that Ito En wants $1/tea bag on their web site.



HOLY COW!! that is amazing. 8O
I'm not offering medical advice, I am just a patient too! Talk to your doctor about what is best for you...
http://www.thisisms.com/ftopic-7318-0.html This is my regimen thread
http://www.ccsvibook.com Read my book published by McFarland Health topics
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Re: EGCG, iron and the brain

Postby NHE » Sun Nov 08, 2009 6:44 pm

NHE wrote:For anyone who might be a Costco member... They sell matcha green tea manufactured by Ito En. A box of 100 1.5g tea bags is $12.69 which is a pretty good deal considering that Ito En wants $1/tea bag on their web site.


Correction, the tea is a matcha + sencha blend. It does not indicate the proportion of the two tea varieties. I find it to be a good tasting tea with a light flavor and no bitterness.

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Postby wonky1 » Mon Nov 09, 2009 4:49 am

I love green tea, unfortunately it makes me vomit. I think I've damaged my stomach lining with one pill or another.
After I have the procedure I plan to chelate the iron with
N-Acetyl-L-Cysteine (NAC). I know this chelates mercury and I think it will work for iron too. I think the U.S. army were testing it's wound healing properties so that is also part of my rationale, it may make the stent heal over quicker.
I cant back this up with hard science but it does seem like an all round panacea.
Any thoughts on this?
Thanks
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