Zombie Science

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Zombie Science

Postby cheerleader » Sun Nov 15, 2009 8:54 pm

Zombie science: A sinister consequence of evaluating scientific theories purely on the basis of enlightened self-interest

Thanks to Thomas for posting this on the general thread-

Summary- Although the classical ideal is that scientific theories are evaluated by a careful teasing-out of their internal logic and external implications, and checking whether these deductions and predictions are in-line-with old and new observations; the fact that so many vague, dumb or incoherent scientific theories are apparently believed by so many scientists for so many years is suggestive that this ideal does not necessarily reflect real world practice. In the real world it looks more like most scientists are quite willing to pursue wrong ideas for so long as they are rewarded with a better chance of achieving more grants, publications and status. The classic account has it that bogus theories should readily be demolished by sceptical (or jealous) competitor scientists. However, in practice even the most conclusive ‘hatchet jobs’ may fail to kill, or even weaken, phoney hypotheses when they are backed-up with sufficient economic muscle in the form of lavish and sustained funding. And when a branch of science based on phoney theories serves a useful but non-scientific purpose, it may be kept-going indefinitely by continuous transfusions of cash from those whose interests it serves. If this happens, real science expires and a ‘zombie science’ evolves. Zombie science is science that is dead but will not lie down. It keeps twitching and lumbering around so that (from a distance, and with your eyes half-closed) zombie science looks much like the real thing. But in fact the zombie has no life of its own; it is animated and moved only by the incessant pumping of funds.

http://www.mantleplumes.org/WebDocument ... on2008.pdf

anyone else seeing zombies?
cheer
Last edited by cheerleader on Sun Nov 15, 2009 9:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby prof8 » Sun Nov 15, 2009 9:04 pm

So do all "autoimmune" diseases have this antigenic target except for MS? I think lupus, RA, and Sjorengens (sp?) does.
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Postby cheerleader » Mon Nov 16, 2009 8:03 am

not sure, prof. But I do think it's crazy to keep heading down the autoimmune path, to the exclusion of other research, just because it's the way to get funded by pharma and lots of people make their livings off of this paradigm.

This article wasn't speaking of MS research, per se, but it rings true-
and the only way to kill zombies is a head shot with a shot gun (according to my teenage son)...so it's going to be a tough time getting the autoimmune zombie down-
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Postby Sharon » Mon Nov 16, 2009 8:48 am

This is a great article....this explains what Zamboni is fighting and dealing with right now.

Sharon
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Postby ikulo » Mon Nov 16, 2009 9:16 am

Thanks Cheer! I think the themes in this article are also representative of our society as a whole, in which the drive for financial success often times exceeds the desire to create a meaningful and positive impact on our world. The one silver lining (and there aren't many!) of having MS, or other diseases/conditions, is that it certainly puts life in perspective, and since being diagnosed I have observed my priorities in life changing to include more altruistic pursuits. If only there were a way to motivate people to do the same without having to undergo such trauma...

Wow, I need more coffee.. :)
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Postby mrhodes40 » Mon Nov 16, 2009 1:07 pm

Zombie science is science that is dead but will not lie down. It keeps twitching and lumbering around so that (from a distance, and with your eyes half-closed) zombie science looks much like the real thing


Wow.
I'm not offering medical advice, I am just a patient too! Talk to your doctor about what is best for you...
http://www.thisisms.com/ftopic-7318-0.html This is my regimen thread
http://www.ccsvibook.com Read my book published by McFarland Health topics
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Postby Thomas » Mon Nov 16, 2009 2:14 pm

"Zombie Science - what kills it only makes it stronger"

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Postby ozarkcanoer » Mon Nov 16, 2009 2:46 pm

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Postby sou » Tue Nov 17, 2009 2:43 am

Shortest joke: "We may not be able to cure MS but we can manage its symptoms."
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Re: Zombie Scienect

Postby NHE » Tue Nov 17, 2009 3:00 am

cheerleader wrote:...and the only way to kill zombies is a head shot with a shot gun (according to my teenage son)...so it's going to be a tough time getting the autoimmune zombie down-


Damn, and here I've been under the impression that it was the aluminum chlorohydrates in cheap antiperspirant that killed zombies. Well, maybe it only works on Redneck Zombies (which was a really bad movie by the way, not grade B, more like an F).

NHE
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Postby cheerleader » Sun Jun 20, 2010 4:19 pm

Finally saw Zombieland last night...actually a really, really well-made film. Fun for the whole family...and it reminded me of this thread. Twinkie, anyone :lol:
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Re: Zombie Scienect

Postby concerned » Sun Jun 20, 2010 5:00 pm

NHE wrote:
cheerleader wrote:...and the only way to kill zombies is a head shot with a shot gun (according to my teenage son)...so it's going to be a tough time getting the autoimmune zombie down-


Damn, and here I've been under the impression that it was the aluminum chlorohydrates in cheap antiperspirant that killed zombies. Well, maybe it only works on Redneck Zombies (which was a really bad movie by the way, not grade B, more like an F).

NHE


HAHAAHAHAHA

I have redneck zombies and it's not very good, but check out THE QUICKENING (I have them dubbed on the same cassette, also Redneck Zombies is more like Z grade.)
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Postby concerned » Sun Jun 20, 2010 7:37 pm

ALSO: not a good thread to revive if you're trying to show some kind of rationality, but, I haven't been on this board since "the beginning" (hasn't it been around close to 10 years or something?)


Have fun zombie hunting though!!!!!!
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Postby Loobie » Mon Jun 21, 2010 11:04 am

I thought I was the only one who thought that movie was funny!! Well I also thought "The life aquatic with Steve Zeesoo" was funny too. Anything with Bill Murray.
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Postby Sharon » Mon Jun 21, 2010 1:18 pm

Not Zombie science, but interesting......
The July/August Discover magazine has an article titled"The Streetlight Effect"
The fundamental error here is summed up in an old joke scientists love to tell. Late at night, a police officer finds a drunk man crawling around on his hands and knees under a streetlight. The drunk man tells the officer he's looking for his wallet. When the officer asks if he's sure this is where he dropped the wallet, the man replies that he thinks he more likely dropped it across the street. Then why are you looking over here? the befuddled officer asks. Because the light's better here, explains the drunk man.

Researchers tend to look for answers where the looking is good, rather than where the answers are likely to be hiding. The result: a lot of dubious science.


The article is quite good. It talks about the excitement of discovering a drug which became the standard of care for heart attack patients.
But in the early 1990s, cardiologists realized that the drugs were also doing something else; killing about 56,000 heart-attack patients a year......Cardiologists had been so focused on immediately measurable arrhythmias that they had overlooked the longer-term but far more important variable of death.

Many, and possibly most, scientists spend their careers looking for answers where the light is better rather than where the truth is more likely to lie.


The link to the article is unavailable since this is the new edition of Discover which came out last week.

It is nice to know that we have some doctors (Zamboni) and scientists (Haacke) willing to look on the "other" side of the street!

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