Diet and Iron deposits

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Diet and Iron deposits

Postby Mutley » Sun Nov 22, 2009 11:50 am

Thanks to the great sources of information on this site I have learnt that Iron deposits in the brain are really bad news. In light of last night’s fantastic documentary (link) about Zamboni’s work, this link between Iron deposits and damage/disability is now really playing on my mind

I know that the topic of diet is fairly subjective, but how sensible would it be to avoid food sources and supplements that are high in Iron? Or is the amount of Iron that could potentially end up in the brain not so closely linked with diet/supplements, since blood already contains lots of Iron anyhow?

I suppose I’m wondering whether it would be worthwhile actively adjusting my diet to restrict Iron intake. Or is the proposed reflux mechanisms involved in CCSVI what is most likely responsible for Iron in the brain, and therefore the affect of diet may be academic since blood (rich in Iron) is getting into the brain anyhow in MS patients?
Mutley goes to Poland 1st symptom was Optic Neuritis in 1998, DX RRMS Jan 2001, DX SPMS 2007. Last EDSS by doctor 7.5
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Postby CureIous » Sun Nov 22, 2009 12:14 pm

It's a good question especially in light of last night's program. Somewhere buried in here we talked about it, probably worth a search, pretty sure the consensus is, that blood iron levels have negligible effect on iron that is already deposited in the brain, outside of the circulatory system. Course it could be that people with high iron deposit in a higher %, maybe not. But going on a low iron diet is never recommended unless specifically indicated. IOW it's a wash...

Going low iron wont stop iron from depositing into the brain.

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RRMS Dx'd 2007, first episode 2004. Bilateral stent placement, 3 on left, 1 stent on right, at Stanford August 2009. Watch my operation video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwc6QlLVtko, Virtually symptom free since, no relap
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Postby ozarkcanoer » Sun Nov 22, 2009 12:19 pm

All people NEED iron... it's not the iron itself that is the problem. It's the fact that due to venous reflux the blood brain barrier is breached and the iron in your blood is going into contact with brain tissue. As long as there is reflux and the BBB is breached, iron in your blood will get into your brain setting off a chain reaction leading to damage to the neurons.

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Postby Mutley » Sun Nov 22, 2009 12:37 pm

Thanks Guys, that’s kind of what I thought. I just wasn’t sure whether anyone held a view that avoiding iron-rich foods might be beneficial somehow. So for now, I’ll not worry too much about the occasional foray with black pudding, red meat, beans, tuna, eggs etc.

Mark.
Mutley goes to Poland 1st symptom was Optic Neuritis in 1998, DX RRMS Jan 2001, DX SPMS 2007. Last EDSS by doctor 7.5
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Postby prof8 » Sun Nov 22, 2009 1:53 pm

I am borderline anemic (not enough iron in my blood--my iron store was very very low) and I have MS. So the two are not incompatible. I don't know, is all the iron in my head now? :lol:
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Postby Shannon » Sun Nov 22, 2009 2:35 pm

I was thinking the same thing. I was never told that my iron was too low until I was pregnant, and I then had to start taking supplements. I am trying to wrap my hear around that one, and also why MS seems to improve during pregnancy. I mean, what happens to the vascular system, perhaps, when you are pregtant? Why do more women seem to get MS? Is it due to menstruation somehow? Interesting thought...

Oh, and I would stay away from the black pudding. That stuff is disgusting! ;)
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Re: Diet and Iron deposits

Postby NHE » Mon Nov 23, 2009 2:13 am

Shannon wrote:...and also why MS seems to improve during pregnancy...


The typical view on this issue is that the fetus is a foreign body to which the immune system must adapt in order to accommodate. Essentially, this is the immune system shifting itself to a regulatory mode than an attack mode. It is this shift that is thought to be responsible for the improvement that many women experience during pregnancy.

The question about how this may relate to CCSVI remains unanswered at this time to the best of my knowledge. It may be the case that the blood brain barrier is still weakened by refluxed blood from cerebrospinal vein stenosis. However, with the immune system being tuned down, the attack initiated by the iron deposits and the damage done by such attack, are not as great and therefore people experience less symptoms.

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Postby Mutley » Mon Nov 23, 2009 3:07 am

I think I read somewhere that women are more likely to relapse in the months after the birth of their children too, so I wonder if an explanation of this could be related to the increases in blood that a woman has in her body during pregnancy and the implications this may have with reflux?

Oh come on, gotta love a bit of black pudding?
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Postby jimmylegs » Mon Nov 23, 2009 5:42 am

i take iron because i know my levels are nowhere near overload - more like 'probably not deficient' - and it's very necessary to deliver, among other things, oxygen to our body's cells (via hemoglobin - your level should be at least 13 according to the klenner protocol for ms).

iron dysregulation and deposition can happen when you're zinc deficient and many ms patients are far from optimal when it comes to zinc.

zinc has a wide array of benefits for ms patients. get your zinc level to 18.2umol/L (average serum level in 'healthy controls' in a variety of studies) and watch your low ms-er uric acid normalize, your d3 absorption skyrocket, and know that you are taking a great step to ward against any iron disregulation and deposition due to zinc deficiency.

there are many other nutrient problems in ms the above is the tip of the iceberg... see signature links for more info :)
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