Low Vitamin D in Mothers cause CCSVI in unborn?

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Low Vitamin D in Mothers cause CCSVI in unborn?

Postby healthymama » Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:52 am

This is my dad's theory, that low vitamin D in the mother causes CCSVI in the unborn child, kind of like a birth defect. This would explain why, in a study I read, people born in the spring have a higher chance of having MS, because the mother did not get as much sun during her pregnancy. It also explains why people in cold climates are more susceptible and why there are more and more cases of MS. (We all use a lot of sunscreen and stay inside rather than playing or working outside and don't eat much seafood with vitamin D.)

This is just a thought, no scientific evidence found in my brief web search to solidify this. I'd love your opinion.
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Postby frodo » Thu Dec 03, 2009 5:06 am

Good point, but the classical studies say that emigrants before 15 years of live inherit the incidence of their new living zone.

Nevertheless, these studies that are repeated in any informative media around the world, are never properly referenced, and I am quite sure that nobody has never been too demanding with the quality of these studies until now.

If the same requirements that exceptics demand to Zamboni had been requested before, that information wouldn't have reached any publication.
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Postby sou » Thu Dec 03, 2009 5:53 am

Hi.

On the other hand, vitamin D supplementation is not recommended during pregnancy, because it can cause mutations and abnormal development of the fetus.

sou
Shortest joke: "We may not be able to cure MS but we can manage its symptoms."
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Postby mrhodes40 » Thu Dec 03, 2009 6:41 am

Hi sou

interesting, can you reference this?
I'm not offering medical advice, I am just a patient too! Talk to your doctor about what is best for you...
http://www.thisisms.com/ftopic-7318-0.html This is my regimen thread
http://www.ccsvibook.com Read my book published by McFarland Health topics
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Postby Ernst » Thu Dec 03, 2009 8:37 am

sou wrote:Hi.

On the other hand, vitamin D supplementation is not recommended during pregnancy, because it can cause mutations and abnormal development of the fetus.

sou


This sounds nonsense, but is there scientific data on this? I quess vitamin d deficiency can lead to abnormalities.
My wife's 3 yrs post video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLeqLps8XR8

Our family: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_QCKxeQAlg
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Postby sou » Thu Dec 03, 2009 11:08 am

Vitamin D has teratogenic effects only in very very very large doses during pregnancy and this makes physicians not to recommend it. It is also fat soluble, which makes it able to pass to the fetus directly. Another culprit is vitamin A, which is usually contained in low quality vitamin D supplements.

On the other hand, lack of vitamin D is known to cause malformations of the vascular system.

What I am trying to say is that doctors are very cautious about its use in pregnancy.

A search in pubmed will reveal several studies about these 2 vitamins in pregnancy.

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Shortest joke: "We may not be able to cure MS but we can manage its symptoms."
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Postby Ernst » Thu Dec 03, 2009 12:11 pm

I have red lots of research about vitamin-d deficiency with pregnancy or fetus.. but could you put some links about resarch(s) about large doses vitamin-d and fetus malformations? This is interesting, I mean how big doses have been proven bad for developing fetus.

ps. tried to find scientific research about vitamin d overdose and fetus abnormalities, but couln't find.
My wife's 3 yrs post video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLeqLps8XR8

Our family: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_QCKxeQAlg
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Postby Johnson » Fri Dec 04, 2009 11:32 pm

Ernst wrote:I have red lots of research about vitamin-d deficiency with pregnancy or fetus.. but could you put some links about resarch(s) about large doses vitamin-d and fetus malformations? This is interesting, I mean how big doses have been proven bad for developing fetus.

ps. tried to find scientific research about vitamin d overdose and fetus abnormalities, but couln't find.


What I have read states that there were some people who took up to 1,000,000 IU a say, and became anorexic (plus a few other troubles - like extremely constipated). I don't have the link (I read so very much).

As to foetal malformation; I tried to get my wife to take the RDA of Vit. D3 whem she was pregnant, but she would not. I give my 3 year old 2,000 -4,000 IU a day. He has only ever had one "flu", and had a sick tummy for the first time in his life the other day. He gets acidophilus/bifidus every day, fish oil every day, the Vit. D, and is vegetarian (his choice). He is the picture of robust health, and is very sharp-minded. He has never been vaccinated either (a whole new topic for discussion...)

For what it is worth; some 10 years ago, I realized that I felt much better in the summer that the winter, and further recognized that when I quit milk (fortified with Vitamin D), I got even worse. I started taking 15,000 IU a day, and have had no problems. About 5 years ago, the studies on the benefit of Vit. D came to light. I thought - 'pshaw! No kidding!.

A point on Vit. D; it is important that one takes D3 - as opposed to plain old D. Just as in Vit. E, it is important to get the Gamma forms over the Alpha form. There are actually 8 types of Vit. E, but the most common form sold is Alpha-tocopheral, which actually inhibits the Delta and Gamma forms. It is like the difference between glutathione and reduced glutathione, and, ...I forget... Oh, yes Vitamin B12... there are different types of that too. I think that there are different forms of most vitamins - some naturally sourced, some synthetic, etc.

Also, remember that the RDA (Recommended Daily Allowance) is the minimum requirement to avoid pathology.
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Postby Ernst » Sat Dec 05, 2009 3:37 am

Vitamin D is absolutely fantastic vitamin and to get optimal levels (125-175 nmol/l) people need quite big amounts of D3. For example my wife with MS, took about 150 µg/day last year and her 25ohd level was in spring 120 nmol, not even the desired level. Vitamin d has been my big interest since wife's dx and I've been reading quite a lot research papers, and results have been quite one sided --> good levels are very important for health.

I'm always very curious when someone says something problematic with with vitamin D (like warning with pregnancy.. about too much D3). I quess the problem vice versa is the problem, deficiency leads to problems with fetus or baby.. or mother. Of course too much is too much (just like drinking water too much isnt healthy), and I was curious about made science --> is there research papers that show the real (not hypothetic) problems with vitamin d overdose by mothers and pregnancy. I didn't find, so I thought Sou has links, cause he mentioned about this.

Sou said:
"On the other hand, vitamin D supplementation is not recommended during pregnancy, because it can cause mutations and abnormal development of the fetus. "
My wife's 3 yrs post video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLeqLps8XR8

Our family: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_QCKxeQAlg
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Postby orion » Sat Dec 05, 2009 9:27 am

sou wrote:Vitamin D has teratogenic effects only in very very very large doses during pregnancy and this makes physicians not to recommend it.

Lot of vitamins are teratogenic in high doses. (vitamin C as well ! )
There was a study using rabbits and rats back in 1976. They found teratogenic effects when giving 40.000 UI/day of vitamin D. Imagine how much women would have to use. Well over million UI / day.


sou wrote:Another culprit is vitamin A, which is usually contained in low quality vitamin D supplements.

Yes, vitamin A is teratogenic even in pretty low dose. But this is different story. You have to use pure vitamin D, not in combination with A or something else.

Also read this article:

Vitamin D: Benefits in pregnancy and beyond
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/vitami ... cy/MY00511
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Postby healthymama » Tue Jan 26, 2010 7:46 pm

I just found this article and thought it was interesting, linked to the above subject.

"Researchers from Oxford University and the University of British Columbia have discovered that Vitamin D deficiency affects a section of the human genome already linked with multiple sclerosis (MS) risk, adding further weight to theories that this vitamin deficiency might play a role in development of the disease.

"Here we show that the main environmental risk candidate -- vitamin D -- and the main gene region are directly linked and interact," said co-author George Ebers.

The study was published in the journal PLoS Genetics.

MS is a disease characterized by the loss of the myelin sheath that insulates cells in the central nervous system. The loss of this insulation leads to disordered transmission of nerve signals, causing a cluster of neurological and muscular symptoms.

Scientists do not know what causes MS, but both genetic and environmental factors have been implicated. One study found that rates of the disease were significantly higher among Northern European populations who receive less sunlight than among those who receive more, suggesting a vitamin D link.

Vitamin D is produced by the body upon exposure to sunlight, and deficiencies are common in areas of the world far from the equator. The vitamin is now believed to play a critical role in immune functioning and the prevention of autoimmune diseases.

MS is highly suspected of being an autoimmune disorder.

In the current study, researchers examined a portion of chromosome six known to play a role in MS risk -- the risk is three times higher among those carrying one copy of the DRB1*1501 gene variant on this chromosome, and 10 times higher among those carrying two. They found that proteins activated by vitamin D bind to and alter the functioning of a section of the chromosome right near this gene. This suggests that vitamin D deficiency during pregnancy might alter the function of fetal genes, predisposing children to MS.

"Our study implies that taking vitamin D supplements during pregnancy and the early years may reduce the risk of a child developing MS in later life," lead researcher Sreeram Ramagopalan said."
http://www.naturalnews.com/025791_Vitam ... sease.html

If CCSVI causes MS and vitamin D is linked to a gene that is linked to MS, then maybe a lack of Vitamin D in utero some how causes the malformation of the jugular veins? Just saying it is plausible, maybe? Interesting connection, but far from concrete.
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Postby gibbledygook » Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:43 am

Well, I'm pregnant and I'm taking 2000 international units daily with calcium, magnesium, omega 3, folic acid, B12 and occasionally selenium. I normally take 5,000 ius daily. My mother had MS, I have MS, I'm damned if I'm not going to try to up the Vit D levels for a winter pregnancy as I rarely leave the flat and don't therefore get ANY sun exposure.
3 years antibiotics, 06/09 bilateral jug stents at C1, 05/11 ballooning of both jug valves, 07/12 stenting of renal vein, azygos & jug valve ballooning,
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Postby LR1234 » Fri Jan 29, 2010 9:38 am

If/When I get pregnant my plan is to be abroad in a hot country for the pregnancy. Can you go somewhere to get some real sun GG?
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Postby gibbledygook » Fri Jan 29, 2010 10:56 am

Too damn cold! also can't walk!
3 years antibiotics, 06/09 bilateral jug stents at C1, 05/11 ballooning of both jug valves, 07/12 stenting of renal vein, azygos & jug valve ballooning,
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ddddd

Postby kc » Fri Jan 29, 2010 11:01 am

OMG

I believe the ms nightmare starts out with a vitamin D defiency in utero then causes vein malformations..then you grow into your full body size and a stressor (or stressors) set it off and BINGO!

I did an antiobiotic protocol for 3 years and became soo much worse. After I stopped that protocol I went on high doses of vitamin d3. Ironically I had a hard time with smaller doses as they made me detox. One day I said to myself "its now or never" and I took a 50,000iu of d3 pill and went and laid down. I laid down because I was a little nervous of what was going to happen. Know what happened? My body relaxed for the first time in years!! I also did some research and found dr joe prendergast on vitamin d. There is a good video on you tube.

My friend was freaking out that i was taking soo much and kept pushing me to get my levels done. (both calcium and vit d). They were fine. But I noticed as time went on I needed more and more. I am on 77,000iu of d3 per day now. (In the summer I did cut it down to 37,000iu per day) I did have my blood checked again and my blood level was in the toxic range, so I decided to cut back. The same day I cut back my low blood sugar came roaring back along with other fun ms stuff.
My friend the PA sent me an article stating that people with ms can tolerate much higher does of vitd than the average smoe.

Soo, I remain on 77,000iu d3 per day. I went from not being able to get on my exercise bike to riding 2 miles at a time. This is not everyday but most days.

I know someone will ask for the article, wish I knew how to post it here. If you pm me i will send it to you.


On another note a nurse practioner friend knows my d story and just plain asked me if I was having any signs of toxicity....nausea, vomiting, etc. No it is the opposite if I cut down , I go down.

I am hoping to cut down to human levels after my veins r fixed. I don't think I will need as much.

kc :o
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