MRI alternative

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

MRI alternative

Postby ElMarino » Wed Dec 02, 2009 11:16 am

Does anyone know, if a person can't have MRIs (me and it's a long story) how would CCSVI be assessed? Does anyone know of any methods other than catheter investigations in all likely veins? They use MRI for the doppler imaging, right?

I suppose that this may become something, if CCSVI theory stands up, which becomes clear in time, in that certain symptoms may become associated with certain veins?

On a side note, the theory for spinal lesions is just the same as the theory for brain lesions, right? Iron build up affecting the spinal cord?

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Postby ScutFarkus » Wed Dec 02, 2009 11:57 am

Doppler imaging uses ultrasound, not MRI.

It works by sending ultrasonic (too high frequency to hear) sound waves through your body, and measuring the reflections. Normal ultrasound can determine the distance traveled by the reflected sound, and thus create a picture of what's inside. Doppler ultrasound also looks at the frequency of the reflections, which lets it figure out the velocity of whatever it was that reflected the sound. Thus, Doppler ultrasound shows the location and structure of your veins, and the direction and speed of blood flow.

Doppler ultrasound is not widely available, so people are exploring ways to use other imaging, such as MRI, to identify vein abnormalities. I believe the Buffalo study is using a special MRI protocol (SWI MRI) that is sensitive to iron deposits, which are thought to be strongly correlated with venous blockage.

Bottom line, MRIs aren't actually the preferred means to test for CCSVI right now, so your inability to get an MRI isn't a show-stopper, at least for CCSVI assessment.

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Postby ElMarino » Wed Dec 02, 2009 12:09 pm

Great, thanks for that!
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Postby LR1234 » Wed Dec 02, 2009 2:03 pm

CT scan, I had my jugular veins looked at via CT (It uses radiation as not magnets)
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Postby danegirl » Thu Dec 03, 2009 1:38 am

Very interesting thread. Can someone please explain what a MRV is? I am told, that one might be nessecary for the excamination. Is it made in a MRI maschine? That big round one, that makes you feel like a cigar in a tight wrapping?

Due to a bad break of my wrist some years ago, it is now held together with (surgical)metal, pins and other "funny" stuff. Due to the metal, I don't think I can go in a MRI maschine. Is a doppler enough to find all the "damaged" veins? Can Dr. Simka diagnose, using a doppler only?

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Postby ErikaSlovakia » Thu Dec 03, 2009 1:43 am

danegirl wrote:Can Dr. Simka diagnose, using a doppler only?


In the most cases yes. They do MRV - Venography before the procedure as well.

Aug. 7, 09 Doppler Ultras. in Poland, left Jugul. valve problem, RRMS since 1996, now SPMS,
- Nov.3,09: one stent in the left jug. vein in Katowice, Poland, LDN, never on DMDs
- Jan. 19, 11: control venography in Katowice - negative but I feel worse
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Postby Algis » Thu Dec 03, 2009 1:45 am

Magnetic Resonance Venography

From Wiki:

Similar procedures to flow effect based MRA can be used to image veins. Called Magnetic resonance venography (MRV) this can be achieved by exciting a plane inferiorly while signal is gathered in the plane immediately superior to the excitation plane, and thus imaging the venous blood which has recently moved from the excited plane. Differences in tissue signals, can also be used for MRA. This method is based on the different signal properties of blood compared to other tissues in the body, independent of MR flow effects. This is most successfully done with balanced pulse sequences such as TrueFISP or bTFE. ... ngiography
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