Structural problems in the neck or jaw?

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Structural problems in the neck or jaw?

Postby Merlyn » Wed Dec 02, 2009 1:50 pm

I am very interested in all of the posts here. I have a question whether people have had existing structural problems that they knew of before? Personally, I have a class III maloccusional (underbite), something called lumberization which is a fused disc in the back, a military neck in which I have no curvature, and I have three kidneys! Seems to me that I might have some quirky veins also but I have not had any of the testing as yet. I have PP form of multiple sclerosis and am now stuck in a wheelchair and getting more spastic everyday. Just wondering if people are like me and had previous known structural problems that were glossed over?
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Postby shye » Wed Dec 02, 2009 8:15 pm

wow Merlyn,
3 years ago I got some heavy dental work done--totally messed my mouth--I had a class I on one side, and class II on other, underbite problem, and ended up with at least class II on both sides (made me worse, not better with their work)---ended up in severe pain (for past 3 years!), with severe TMJ problem--many dentists seen, no help--Finally now seeing a neuromuscular dentist, and have been wearing different types of orthotic devices (similiar to night guards) for past 17 months to slowly reposition my jaw to a spot where correct the joint problem, and then willl have to have most of teeth crowned in order to realign my teeth to correct joint position! You cannot imagine the amt of money this is costing. BUT the pain is at minimal level now !
But along the route of mending, have seen an osteopath, and chiropractor, and do a number of exercises. One of findings is that I have lordosis of neck--esentially, a straight neck ! (am doing excercises for this)--this neuromuscular dentistry is a relatively new field, but it will oddly end up helping my MS. With all the body work to correct the neck and jaw alignment, am doing much better. With the osteopathic cranial manipulation, amazing how much better my vision and mood are right after a treatment--one area the Dr concentrates on is separating the skull from neck in back--I also do an exercise several times a day to stretch this area--was extremely difficult and painful to do when I started it last year, now easy, but still a bit painful..
So yes, these problems were glossed over with me until the dental work made them so glaring that I had to get answers.
If you want further info on any of this, I think there is a way we can contact each other privately here, but don't know how yet.
meanwhile, you can look at site of neuromuscular dentistry to get an idea of how they help http://www.leadingdentists.com/
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Postby Sharon » Wed Dec 02, 2009 9:06 pm

Shye

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Postby shye » Thu Dec 03, 2009 4:48 pm

Thanks Sharon
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Postby Johnson » Fri Dec 04, 2009 1:08 am

I have had TMJ dysfunction for well over 30 years, and my MRIs show that my right TMJ is disintegrating. I also had wisdom teeth problems, and finally had them removed shortly after developing MS, but it did not seem to help.

I started having hearing problems on the right, and always thought that it was my Eustachian tube. I felt that I wanted to reach into my ear, and down to the level of my clavicle to pull out the obstruction (sounds like drainage to me...). I am now completely deaf on the right side, though that ear has a screaming, variable, six-tone tinnitus. The ENTs have never been able to find what's wrong, and have blamed it on MS. The neurologists have never been able to find anything in the MRIs, and refer me to ENT.

Am I nutty for hoping that I might regain my hearing after draining my head? (rhetorical question)
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Postby Algis » Fri Dec 04, 2009 1:21 am

I may sounds paranoid here but I feel somewhat that when the Docs cant find a suitable answer they easily hang it in the MS cabinet...
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Postby Johnson » Fri Dec 04, 2009 3:30 am

Algis wrote:I may sounds paranoid here but I feel somewhat that when the Docs cant find a suitable answer they easily hang it in the MS cabinet...


Yes, and I am afraid that I may do that too. For example: Is my vision in trouble because of MS? Reading on the computer too much? Middle age? Do I just need a new eyeglasses prescription? Am I exhausted because I did not sleep enough for too many years? or because I slept too much in the last 3 months? Am I really fatigued? or just lazy? Am I dizzy because I might have low blood sugar? Because I smoke too much? What is that weird pain in my chest? Behind my eye? In my teeth? below my ...

It is a capricious affliction, and I don't much wonder that the medicos are even more confused than we are. I think that most of us know more about MS than any neurologist that we have ever had to consult, and definitely more than any General Practitioner that I have ever had to get a referral from, but, I think, not near as much as the likes of Dr. Zamboni. (and to be fair, Schelling, and quite a few others)

/end babble
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Postby Johnnymac » Fri Dec 04, 2009 3:37 pm

your post really got me thinking.

About 3-4 years before Courtney was diagnosed she had her wisdom teeth taken out, and had a very rough time of it and took a while to heal. In addition, shortly after she started having signs of TMJ and to this day there are times when she can only open her mouth so far without pain in her left jaw.

Considering the location of the veins in question when talking about CCSVI I could very well see how structural problems in the jaw could perhaps be putting pressure on a vein and restricting flow.
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Postby Johnson » Fri Dec 04, 2009 4:06 pm

Johnnymac wrote:[redacted]

Considering the location of the veins in question when talking about CCSVI I could very well see how structural problems in the jaw could perhaps be putting pressure on a vein and restricting flow.


I wondered at that, and wondered if it was the other way around... I first started having TMJ dysfunction when I was about 15 - that's when the wisdom teeth start coming (MS arrived at 32). If the vein problem is congenital, perhaps that stunts the development of the jaw in the early years. Chicken and egg kinda deal, isn't it? I'm not too sure how the TMJ would affect lower jugulars, azygous, or vertebral jugulars. I will be able to better comment after I have scans in February/March

I had a grim time with the extraction too - I had all 4 teeth out the same day (and a fair bit of bone came out with them). The Dental Surgeon literally had his foot on the chair beside my head for leverage. Healing was slow for me as well (despite mouth washes 10 x per day with Golden Seal/Myrrh/Comfrey). 15 years later, I still get occasional flare-ups of the gums where the teeth used to be.
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Postby ozarkcanoer » Fri Dec 04, 2009 4:25 pm

I have a lot of TMJ right now. When I was in my 20's I had dental surgery to extract a couple of wisdom teeth. It was a long time to heal. Since then I have had mucho root canals, LOL. But my TMJ didn't start until my MS diagnosis in Jan 2008.
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Postby Johnson » Fri Dec 04, 2009 4:59 pm

ozarkcanoer wrote:I have a lot of TMJ right now. When I was in my 20's I had dental surgery to extract a couple of wisdom teeth. It was a long time to heal. Since then I have had mucho root canals, LOL. But my TMJ didn't start until my MS diagnosis in Jan 2008.


That sounds like the lack of drainage (blocked veins) is the chicken, and the TMJD is the egg.

Root canals are apparently not a good thing. From what I have read, there is always infection of some level, or another. I'm not sure that extraction, followed by implant is better by any great degree. I just have one root canal (almost 30 years ago), and it is a great conundrum for me. I don't want bridges, or plates, but I want MS even less. Dr. Simka's surgery is just slightly less than 2x what an implant costs, but I have never heard any suggestion that extracting a dead tooth might ameliorate MS symptoms. I'll go for the vein surgery for now.
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Postby ozarkcanoer » Fri Dec 04, 2009 5:03 pm

I'll go with the vein surgery too !! My husband had a heart catherization last summer for possible blocked arteries and he says it was a breeze, LOL. Every root canal I have had has been very uncomfortable. Give me "The Liberation Treatment" !!!!
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Postby CureIous » Mon Dec 07, 2009 1:38 am

They are keeping TMJ type stuff in mind when looking at this. I'll prop the door open here and say that it's *interesting* from a layperson's viewpoint (Read: MY OPINION), not only the number of people with TMJ but the number of PWMS who have a pronounced jawline, yes, I know, not everyone, got it. Go look at all the people they have pics of on NMSS, lots of elongated features and wide jaws and long chins. Goes to structural issues your honor... We'll put this in the red face blood flow category of polling lol.

Forgot to add, my braces were originally put in to pull my jaw OUT, for alignment purposes, prior to getting that jaw surgery with the funky name I dont feel like looking up. The braces stayed on for about 1 1/2 years, doing just like the ortho had planned, but I neglected to finish it up with the jaw surgery. 6 months later I "got MS" ie my first identifiable flare up or hint that anything was going on.

Just stuff that makes you wonder about the litany of factors involved in the symphony that is MS...
RRMS Dx'd 2007, first episode 2004. Bilateral stent placement, 3 on left, 1 stent on right, at Stanford August 2009. Watch my operation video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwc6QlLVtko, Virtually symptom free since, no relap
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Neck injury??

Postby jenf » Mon Dec 07, 2009 5:52 am

Hi everyone,
I've been racking my brain trying to fit together the CCSVI pieces as it relates to MS, and my MS more specifically. Yesterday morning, I had an epiphany. My MS presented itself this past January, after a vigorous aerobics routine, followed by a neck injury. Three days later, my double vision started. I was convinced the double vision was as a result of the neck injury, also because I knew nothing of MS at the time. After months of symptoms and several hospital stays, I was finally diagnosed. Funny thing was, I didn't fall into some of the "typical' onset categories. I've never had Epstein Barr; I hadn't been under any stress; there was no virus prior to my symptoms; no family members have MS; the list goes on and on. The ONLY thing was my neck injury. Ironically, the left side of my neck still bothers me. I realize this may be grasping, but I can't help but think it's connected somehow.

As this reseach moves forward, I wonder if the connection to the dots will become clearer? I am convinced CCSVI is the answer, primarily because it FITS. Interesting stuff...
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Postby Merlyn » Mon Dec 07, 2009 12:24 pm

Interesting, I started this thread and I want to thank all the people that have replied. Who knows? Sometimes MS starts after car accidents, not my case but it happens, so who knows what the spinal structural relationships are... this whole stupid theory of autoimmunity has squashed all other research. Nazi-think. Like the whole climate change thing, you cannot propose any other theories and expect to get some funding. I have three congenital birth defects including a class III maloccusional jaw (severe underbite) have often wondered what that meant as far as the neck etc. because chiropractors freak out when they see my x-rays. Straight up and down military neck with absolutely no curvature and further down the spine something called lumberization, where the discs are fused together so there is no movement there. Also, I have three kidneys and in Chinese medicine kidneys are what controls circulation along with the heart. I am in Canada and I am about to make an appointment to get my iron test properly.
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