Finding cures is not even remotely a consideration by pharma

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Finding cures is not even remotely a consideration by pharma

Postby bohemianbill » Sun Dec 06, 2009 8:56 pm

I have been refered to as Angry, Impatient, Activist & sometimes all three at once.

Folks we all need to be the above. This is not going to happen unless WE demand it. I am a realist, do some research, they tried to shut down Dr Zamboni's research in Italy, fortunatley he had gone far enough that empirically
he was able to prove out his hypothesis.


Has anybody heard one thing about CCSVI from the mainstream american media, hell no.
their media is bought & paid for, thank god Canada CTV W5 still has a journalistic integrity that cannot be bought. Please folks this is not going to happen without a FIGHT. Our only voice are OUR Societies, they have to represent US. Insist on nothing less. Read the following article/link

http://vactruth.com/2009/12/05/big-phar ... ime-spree/


BIG PHARMA’S CRIME SPREE is a riveting report by David Evans in the current issue of Bloomberg Markets Magazine relying on recent criminal legal settlements. It leaves no doubt about the fact that Big Pharma’s business practices are defined by criminal activities. Finding cures is not even remotely a consideration by pharmaceutical executives, as it would present a financial conflict of interest.

There you have it folks, "finding cures is not even remotely a consideration by pharamceutical executives"

Do any of you for a micro second think that Big Pharma is going to embrace CCSVI research, they will do everything in their power to derail this research

-keep the heat to the feet-
Last edited by bohemianbill on Mon Dec 07, 2009 11:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby sbr487 » Mon Dec 07, 2009 1:33 am

Experts opinion is for sale, only the price varies.
Though there are few who go by what they believe is right.

Not to be critical, but I think affiliation is a big thing in US.
It was only in Europe that Microsoft and Intel got punished for bad business practices.

I only hope that CCSVI has spread far and wide, it might be difficult to stop it.
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Postby Algis » Mon Dec 07, 2009 2:25 am

We can pretty safely assume that it has spread as far as China (Beijing); Japan (Yokohama) according to the CCSVI map
~and~
India (since surgery tourism is involved) and Taiwan (because I am in the procedure of being tested).

They might not be "trained" nor "experienced" but at least they have shown interest and thus; people know and are involved; while others (like me) are pushing them...

It needs a spark to start the fire :)
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Who are we fighting and will you be heard

Postby Renoandi » Mon Dec 07, 2009 12:01 pm

Hi everyone,

I haven't been on these boards in sometime. The lack of media coverage is appaling to me. There is a huge movement on youtube about CCSVI and we are all trying to get the message out there.

I have started a youtube support group, where people can post a video response to the topic or a written one. There are a lot of videos explaning Dr. Zamboni's findings and how it affects the veins etc.

I choose to do a different type of video, a call to action so to speak. Sites like youtube, metcafe etc. Give us an audience and away to get infromation out there to those who have not heard about CCSVI.

We have to keep pushing and not give up, be proactive!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6OfPPmBwT4
www.youtube.com/MSVlogSupport<br />LIJ 60%/ RIJ 50%, angio on Sept 14th no signs of improvement yet.
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Postby jay123 » Mon Dec 07, 2009 12:51 pm

You know damn well it's the MS S and the drug companies putting the pressure on.
THIS SUCKS!!!
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Postby bohemianbill » Mon Dec 07, 2009 2:12 pm

My dear i have just watched your video, Bravo, you are a true warrior.

Greed, Money, Period. Lets pretend you are an employee of the MS Industry, you do not suffer from it , you are not a direct care giver, you no longer wake up in the middle of the night and ask Why Me.

You go to your performance meetings, lets start of with the societies, fund raising, fundraising, fundraising. Research depts. budgets,budgets,budgets. Pharma, whats in the pipeline, when will phase 2 be completed we need to apply for sanction, get out there and sell,sell,sell. Tell them whatever they want to hear. Stockholders are getting edgy.

You are so right i remember being next to my wife (progressive 20 years) as the neuro went from her bed and saying outloud to her "you know its the MS, its progressive, maintenace is all we have to offer. (My wife had a career, married,)

He than sits next to this wide eyed 17 year old and announces that she has MS, more tests needed to be done, the good news was she is a prime candidate for the latest & greatest RR drug therapy.

My wife and I spent the next 2 days explaining to her & her family that MS has many different faces & that my wife unfortunatly was one of the 5%, She would live to lead a very normal life, not to fear. i will never forget the look of horror on her face. By the way my wife heard those same words from someone when she was originaly diagnosed.

Like you when researching CCSVI it just made so much common sense. Dr Zamboni has actually put a face on MS by stating severity had a direct correlation to the #, severity & location of the blockages.

Blew me away. We live in canada & there the Societie announcmnet of possible research into CCSVI as far as i am concern was nothing other than damage control. Shut done the negativity, we do not need the bad press.

i like you will not allow this to be hijacked.

Please see my site. I believe that Societiy is our voice, they exsist because of us, they spend our money, we allow that to happen. BUT
anything less than 100% Transparency will cause us to fail. There is too much money, greed, entrenched ideologies.

We have the biggest fight of our lives in front of us. The internet is our weapon, Education will be our victory

-keep the heat to the feet-

All IMHO

BB

http://ccsviresearchtransparency.com/
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Irony, anyone?

Postby ScutFarkus » Tue Dec 08, 2009 1:28 pm

Wow, citing information from a vaccine denial website? Those guys wrote the book on crazy. Well, at least a chapter. It's a big book.

I find it extremely ironic that the same people who are upset that we're being denied experimental surgical intervention for an unproven cause of MS (in case it's not clear, I'm talking about venous surgery for CCSVI), are furious about the drug companies selling medication for "unapproved uses." Here's one of the horrifying quotes from the article you linked to: "About 15% of drug sales in the U.S. are for unapproved uses without adequate evidence the medicines work."

Oh, the horror!

So the apparent conclusion is that it's criminal to allow people to pay for unproven and/or unapproved treatments. I assume you're preparing your lawsuit against the evil Dr. Dake as we speak. I encourage you to reconsider.

/Scut
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Postby bohemianbill » Tue Dec 08, 2009 3:09 pm

Scutfarkus,

Were in this article does it state that marketing the 'off label drugs' was explained to the patient receiving them. There is not a drug sold in America without a prescription from a physician, its designed that way for a reason, protect the uninformed. They as sheeple take the recommendations of their physicians usually without question. Patients are at (the public at large)the mercy of their physicians & the medical profession who's mandate is to protect them. The sheeple are with "clean hands". When was the last time you defied, asked for, questioned your doctors orders. Sir we are not comparing Dr Dake good work to marketing divisions of corrupt bottom line pharmaceutical companies. Are You?

I believe all that embrace CCSVI treatment are there after conducting there due diligence and i am certain without even having to ask that prior to the procedure being completed all the evil nasty things that may occur are discussed, understood, and agreed upon by ALL the parties involved.

How this compares to receiving a drug in the normal course of physician/patient relationship compares I am not certain. This article spelled out the ideology of Big pharma. Wall Street and the Judicial system & what they are capable of. Fines for crimes, until these perps are put in jail, until the CEO that makes these decisions to put the financial bottom line in front of the people of this land GO TO JAIL, nothing will change.

Scut I have some very good news for you the Sheeple are awakening, the Internet is educating & giving them a voice. Big Pharma cares about one thing, stock holders (i am one for the record) and as sh-t rolls down hill their jobs depend on one thing. PROFITS. The wall street model has over taken the hypocritical oath, the laws of the land, and more than anything else the Constitution of the United States of America. Beware of the sleeping giant.

Lastly I have never heard Bloomberg described like this before?

Wow, citing information from a vaccine denial website? Those guys wrote the book on crazy. Well, at least a chapter. It's a big book.

-keep the heat to the feet-
BB


http://www.bloomberg.com/news/marketsma ... tory2.html
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Bloomberg didn't say the crazy stuff

Postby ScutFarkus » Tue Dec 08, 2009 5:46 pm

The title of this thread you started is "finding cures is not even remotely a consideration by pharamceutical executives." You even quote that statement again in your post. That quote is from the conspiracy-minded vactruth site, not from the Bloomberg article.

i am certain without even having to ask that prior to the procedure being completed all the evil nasty things that may occur are discussed, understood, and agreed upon by ALL the parties involved


Maybe you should ask. Heck, just read some of the posts on this forum from people who had the procedure at Stanford. Not everyone was aware of all the risks. They couldn't be, anyway, since we don't yet know all the risks.

Being certain without asking is a great recipe for being really, really wrong.

When was the last time you defied, asked for, questioned your doctors orders.

I routinely ask my doctors to explain their decisions, and I do my own research on reputable websites such as uptodate.com and webmd.com. Don't you do the same? When my neurologist wanted to take a wait-and-see approach to my CIS, I disagreed and asked him to refer me to an MS specialist for a second opinion. He was happy to do so (I like him, even if I disagreed on this), and the specialist encouraged me to take a more aggressive approach to treatment, as my own research suggested was appropriate.

"There are in fact two things, science and opinion; the former begets knowledge, the later ignorance." -Hippocrates

/Scut
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Hippo

Postby bohemianbill » Tue Dec 08, 2009 7:14 pm

There are in fact two things, science and opinion; the former begets knowledge, the later ignorance." -Hippocrates

i will stand by my post, touche, re the title of my post, i quoted wrong, neverless the article implied JUST THAT & i agree. Conspiracy minded, without a dought. I do not trust. Big Money will do what ever it takes to protect Big Money Period

I refereed to the general public as the SHEEPLE, it was for a reason, unlike yourself a vast majority of people would not ask the questions you did.

Just as no one questioned the ground work for financial armagedon that was laid out over the last 3 should i say 4 Presidencies. (another time)

When people are busy living the thieves go through the front door and they do it smiling. The front door is now locked, firearm & militia membership at an all time high. People are going to freeze to death in the streets of America this winter and the sheeple that were so busy trying to grab a piece of the American dream are pissed.

The above is an observation of fact & just like the roadblocks being erected to the study of CCSVI i will end this way.

As learned as Hippo was i am curious as to which wall street firm he would be affiliated with today:) because with all due respect in todays world without $ there is no science and its the lack of opinion/questioning thats putting people onto the streets.

So my young friend pull your head out of your lap and take that learned mind of yours and try and make a difference in this world. There is not going to be much left of it if we all do not start.

ALL IMHO
BB

PS-No disrespect enjoyed the retrospect, hope do engage again.

-keep the heat to the feet-
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Re: Finding cures, or not

Postby NHE » Wed Dec 09, 2009 2:30 am

Fuel for the fire perhaps, but also from an informed vantage...

NHE wrote:Books on the pharmaceutical industry:
While many good things have come out of the pharmaceutical industry, I feel that it's important to view it through the eye of a skeptic. These books will help to illustrate why.
  • Selling Sickness by Ray Moynihan and Alan Cassels.
    link to review
  • Overdosed America: The Broken Promise of American Medicine by Dr. John Abramson.
    link to author's website
  • The truth about the drug companies by Marcia Angell. Dr. Marcia Angell is a senior lecturer at the Harvard Medical School and former editor of The New England Journal of Medicine. In this book she gives an inside look into the pharmaceutical business.
    link to review


NHE
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Postby Algis » Wed Dec 09, 2009 2:42 am

@ScutFarkus: Educated; maybe. Naive; certainly.

Good luck :)
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Pick Winable Battles.

Postby MarkW » Wed Dec 09, 2009 3:30 am

To declare my background - I am registered Pharmacist and worked with the pharma industry (as a Pharmaceutical Consultant) until MS prevented this.

Why wage a war on pharma ? What do patients with MS gain from it ?
The battle to engage in is much more simple - Step 1, How do pwMS get the Ultrasound/MRV without going to Poland. Step 2 How do pwMS find a Interventional (Neuro) Radiologist to perform angioplanty on restricted veins.

Do not expect the medical and pharmaceutical community to jump at this method. Please spend your efforts and energy in making progress for pwMS rather than battling pet hates.

Mark Walker - Oxford, England.
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Postby Algis » Wed Dec 09, 2009 3:45 am

Good talk Mark :)
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Postby ScutFarkus » Wed Dec 09, 2009 2:04 pm

Algis wrote:@ScutFarkus: Educated; maybe. Naive; certainly.


This thorough, well-reasoned and logically sound point-by-point rebuttal to my arguments has shown me the error of my ways. :lol:

Clearly I misunderestimated your side of the story...

MarkW wrote:Why wage a war on pharma? What do patients with MS gain from it ?


Well said. This blinding hatred of "big pharma" is a largely misguided waste of energy. To be clear, I agree that the pharmaceutical companies do a lot of bad stuff, such as the overly aggressive marketing outlined in that Bloomberg article, but that doesn't really have much to do with CCSVI. And it's insincere to ignore the good stuff the pharmaceutical companies do.

I think the implication that "big pharma" is actively impeding CCSVI is another case of a solution looking for a problem. There are plenty of simpler explanations for the rate at which CCSVI is being accepted and the resistance it meets; no conspiracy theory is needed. I don't expect drug companies to pay for CCSVI research, but then I don't expect Ford to fund walking research, either. And don't forget that there are plenty of pharmaceutical dollars involved in surgery, drug-release stents, etc. So be careful what you wish for, or you may be getting your venous surgery without the benefit of anesthesia, blood thinners, or anti-clotting medication...

And I know this was an off-topic throwaway comment, but I can't resist:
bohemianbill wrote:Just as no one questioned the ground work for financial armagedon that was laid out over the last 3 should i say 4 Presidencies. (another time)

Actually, some people did. For the fascinating story of one regulator who questioned it, check out http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/warning/

/Scut
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