Epstein-Barr virus may cause MS through venous involvement

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Epstein-Barr virus may cause MS through venous involvement

Postby MSUK » Sat Dec 19, 2009 11:55 pm

Possible connection to Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency (CCSVI) explained.......... http://tinyurl.com/msrc-ccsvi
MS-UK - http://www.ms-uk.org/
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Postby thisisalex » Sun Dec 20, 2009 3:46 am

haha, thats my last night finding, im proud it became part of the MSRC newsletter! :D
http://www.thisisms.com/ftopict-7631.html
i try to connect things to CCSVI which were connected to MS before... that is how the puzzle will be put together

alex
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Whoa! To the MS Society

Postby reg613 » Sun Dec 20, 2009 3:51 am

I read the link and was blown away by the manipulative angles these MS executives are delivering. What a bunch of gross people!

For one, notice that the Milvy article was included. This was done to pretend tolerance to the opposing view and to have Milvy introduce the word "conspiracy theorists." She can, she's a whimsical columnist. Trojan horse all the way.

I'm not setting about here to convince anyone on this board to my way, I simply want the MS industry agents to know that I know. And we know they read this website.

Now you guys, come on, you know the EBV theory you are trying to cite as the cause of CCSVI is a load of hooey. Get off that lame camel. please.

EBV in MS figures after the first attack. It is a subsequent trigger not a cause. It is cruel to perpetuate your relevance here with such nonsense and throwing it in at a time like this.

Your effort here is to try to get the auto-immune theory back in the picture. Let me remind you that auto-immune is a consequence not a cause. It's not rocket science but you have tried to make it so.

Myelin to the immune system is as good as a virus. MMMM yummy. Once it has tasted myelin from the first episode, a puely MECHANICAL event which forms a bridge across the brain-blood barrier, you have immunized yourself against your own myelin.

MS is a vaccination drive gone wrong. EBV is lookalike myelin so how on earth can this happen first?

I know it is exhilarating to have millions of people trusting you like blind puppies you but you have gone way too far. Just because people let you abuse them doesn't mean you should do it. You set the conditions in the first place and they were wrong. So in this scenario of exploiter vs. idiot you are mostly wrong.

And yes, I know you will fob me off as a conspiracy theorist. Whatever.
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Postby Algis » Sun Dec 20, 2009 4:07 am

The theory of the vaccination has been looked through since a while. It lack too much to be validated.

I suggest you go to concen.org - a website really made for you and your thoughts. Many paranoiacs and scared people over there; you'll feel at home.

Here we are simply trying to exploit the CCSVI theory.

On another hand; and technically speaking; the more threads/posts a forum gets the more prevalent it is in a search engine under the main page's keywords; therefore every post/thread count for what some non-paranoid people are trying to achieve here :)

My tuppence over your thoughts - Have a nice (worried) day!
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Postby thisisalex » Sun Dec 20, 2009 4:20 am

reg613,
no one tries to bring back auto immunity... it is here. :) we just try to find _connections_ between the pieces of the puzzle... this is what you do with real puzzle game also
then time will tell

peace mate :)
alex
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Postby sbr487 » Sun Dec 20, 2009 9:57 am

On the contrary, at some point in future I would expect the neuros to accept the fact that the tactic of suppressing the immune was totally incorrect. The immune system was in fact trying to do its job. Yes, the consequence of doing so was devastating on the sufferers, but no one yet knows what the consequence of continuous iron deposition in the brain would be.
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Postby cheerleader » Sun Dec 20, 2009 11:57 am

I'll say once again, Dr. Zamboni's team (and that includes the researchers at SUNY Buffalo who wrote/researched the EBV/gray matter paper) are searching for endothelial disrupters that may exacerbate venous stenosis. Included in there studies are Cpn, EBV, cigarette smoking, saturated fats and low vitamin D. Dr. Zamboni announced these ongoing studies in Bologna.

The fact that there are many viral, bacterial, toxic and environmental agents that would make CCSVI (primarily thought to be congenital) even worse, and cause exacerbations does not threaten Dr. Zamboni's research. This is why he himself is encouraging it. He believes endothelial disruption makes CCSVI worse, but does not cause CCSVI.

In the CCSVI paradigm, everything we know about MS now makes sense. This is why smoking (an immune system dampening agent) is BAD, why viruses and BAD, why obesity is BAD. If MS begins as a vascular disease, it all falls into place.
cheer
Husband dx RRMS 3/07
dx dual jugular vein stenosis (CCSVI) 4/09
http://ccsviinms.blogspot.com
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Postby bestadmom » Sun Dec 20, 2009 12:20 pm

Cheer,

Many moons ago, you had posted that Jeff was tested for a bevy of diseases prior (I think) to his ms diagnosis, and he was negative for EBV. Is this correct?

I heard from my neuro that CCSVI couldn't be linked to MS because 100% of msers are postive for EBV.
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Postby cheerleader » Sun Dec 20, 2009 12:27 pm

bestadmom wrote:Cheer,

Many moons ago, you had posted that Jeff was tested for a bevy of diseases prior (I think) to his ms diagnosis, and he was negative for EBV. Is this correct?

I heard from my neuro that CCSVI couldn't be linked to MS because 100% of msers are postive for EBV.


Momma- Jeff's CSF was tested for a variety of viruses and bacterial infections, because his serum numbers showed sky high liver enzymes, he had a petechial rash and jaundice...his neuro was very up on the viral research. He was negative for all of these, including EBV and Cpn. We now know he had an hypoxic event- and these were signs of hypoxic injury (he had just returned from a week at high altitude.) Either Jeff is an EBV anomaly, or his endothelial disruption was due to lack of oxygen, and it exacerbated his closed jugulars- (guess you know what I think)
cheer
Husband dx RRMS 3/07
dx dual jugular vein stenosis (CCSVI) 4/09
http://ccsviinms.blogspot.com
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Postby thisisalex » Sun Dec 20, 2009 1:54 pm

Cheer

it is absulutely stunning what you say... it is amazing, that Zamboni's team try to put together the big picture. that is how it will become a full story and not just a dream of a vascular surgeon from the far italy

and that hypoxic issue of Jeff is just perfectly fits ... amazing.

bestadmom, your neuro is wrong, almost 95 % of (healthy) people is positive for EBV...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epstein-Barr_virus
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Postby bestadmom » Sun Dec 20, 2009 2:02 pm

In defense of my neuro, who I happen to be pissed off at for his dismissive attitude re CCSVI, I must support him in that he never said that healthy people don't have EBV. We know it is prevalent in the general population. He just says all msers have it. Obviously they don't.

Considering that there are also mis diagnoses in MS, i.e. false positives, I don't buy his theory.
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Postby suze » Sun Dec 20, 2009 10:52 pm

If you do a google search on, endothelial EBV, you will find that there is a positive link. EBV infects endothelial cells and researchers have known for quite a while.
There's actually quite a lot of information on vitamin D and endothelial function as well.
It seems to be fitting together!!!
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Postby MSUK » Sun Dec 20, 2009 11:42 pm

I read the link and was blown away by the manipulative angles these MS executives are delivering. What a bunch of gross people!


Hi reg,

I hope you were not including MSRC in this?

MSRC always have been, and always will be totally unbiased in ALL MS information, as can be seen by looking through the almost 3000 pages on our website. Our whole ethos is to deliver ALL information on a MS related subject, both good and bad and from whatever legitimate source, and let the reader make an informed choice.

The article we have added to our growing CCSVI pages highlights the possible link between EBV and venous stenoisis, and is another useful piece in, what is still, a very confused picture.

As can be seen from the published MSRC Statement on CCSVI we are very encouraged by Dr Zamboni's research.

MSRC Statement on CCSVI and Dr Paulo Zamboni’s work.

"MSRC is very encouraged by the early results of Dr Paulo Zamboni’s work. There is no doubt that this area warrants a great deal more study. This could represent a completely novel approach to MS research which, if proven to be relevant, could be a “sea change” in the understanding of the mechanisms involved in the condition. There has already been a huge amount of interest about this study and MSRC will continue to report on any and all developments in this very important area. MSRC looks forward to the results of the further trials that are taking place and hopes that these studies are able to reproduce the findings of Dr Zamboni.” - Helen Yates MSRC Chief Executive

kind regards

John Habkirk
MSRC Webmaster
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Postby jenf » Wed Dec 23, 2009 6:45 pm

I have not had EBV and did not test positive for it either... I also didn't have many of the "typical" diagnosis criteria; only one band in my spinal fluid, non-specific lesions on my brain (and very few), etc. My diagnosis came after my second bout of optic neuritis, which did (fortunately) affect my evoked potential. I suspect this is just another branch of the MS tree.
Jen

RRMS - dx 06/09
LDN - 4.5mg 06/09-present
Copaxone - 06/10-09/10
Avonex - 06/12-06/12

Late Stage Lyme - 12/10
Too many meds to list!!

Remember, today is the tomorrow you worried about yesterday..
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Postby jimmylegs » Thu Dec 24, 2009 6:49 am

here, where we are looking at potential connections between EBV and CCSVI, and without debating whether or not the connections between EBV and MS are significant, i suggest that zinc deficiency could contribute to risk of infection by EBV.

i've posted elsewhere on connections between zinc status and vascular health, both here in the CCSVI venue, and earlier today i added an item to an older separate 'general discussion' topic. i'm still learning about this particular connection, but zinc appears to be one of the common nutritional threads that connect the dots between a variety of ms issues.

here's a neat abstract on zinc and the immune system.
http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/130/5/1424S
The relevance of zinc in resistance to infections by virus, fungi and bacteria is recognized because of its pivotal role in the efficiency of the entire immune system, in particular in conferring biological activity to a thymic hormone called thymulin, which has differentiation properties on T-cell lines. In infection with human immunodeficiency virus (HIV), the zinc-bound form of thymulin (active thymulin, ZnFTS) is strongly reduced in stage IV of the disease (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention classification) with concomitant decrements in CD4+ cell count and zincemia values. The zinc-unbound form of thymulin (inactive thymulin, FTS) is, in contrast, very high. The in vitro addition of zinc to plasma samples induces a recovery of the thymulin active form, suggesting low zinc bioavailability as the cause of impaired thymic functions with consequent CD4+ depletion. An analysis of risk factors for the incidence of recidivism opportunistic infections shows CD4+ depletion and zinc deficiency to have significant scores. Supplementation with zinc for 1 mo (45 mg Zn2+/d) associated with zidovudine (AZT) therapy in stage IV induces recovery of active zinc-bound thymulin, of zincemia, of CD4+ cells with concomitant reduction (50%) of recidivism opportunistic infections compared with the AZT-treated group. Complete disappearance of recidivism by Candida aesophagea or Pneumocystis carinii is observed after supplementation with zinc. The relative risk factors (CD4+ depletion and zinc-deficiency) have lower scores in the HIV-positive zinc-treated group, confirming, as such, the relevance of zinc in opportunistic infections that involve extracellular matrix.

could a potential connection between EBV and CCSVI be susceptibility to both, due in part to zinc insufficiency or outright deficiency?
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