Colour doppler experiences

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Colour doppler experiences

Postby Camilla » Sun Dec 20, 2009 5:09 am

Hi all!

I was wondering how many people were trying to get doppler exams/MRVs other than those done by Drs Dake/Simka/Zaboni and Haacke.

I am in the UK, and a friend who is an (experienced) ultrasound technician, studied Dr Zaboni and Dr Simka's protocol and tried the test on me, and one other person with MS (On her own time). She basically could find no stenosis, suspected she saw some kind of reflux, but is not really sure.

She is going to try with other people (non-MS) as suggested by Dr. Zaboni and then me again. But it seems it is pretty hard to see the stenosis. I was wondering what luck others were having with 'non-trained' tehnicians and if there were any suggestions on how to train them -- short of sending them to Italy!

Cheers

Camilla
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Postby CureOrBust » Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:01 am

I had the dopplers performed much earlier this year. I had them performed by the Ultra-Sound technician of a neurologist that specialised in treating stroke patients, and the use of ultra-sound. He was more than familiar with all the tests listed.

Your friend may be helped by contacting a local neurologist that specialises in stroke & doppler. They also may find that the makers of the equipment they are using may be very eager to help as well. Just an idea.
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Postby Camilla » Mon Dec 21, 2009 4:42 am

That's a good idea! :) Did he/she find stenosis while doing the test first time round?

Thanks

Camilla
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Postby sunlounger » Mon Dec 21, 2009 5:08 am

I had a Doppler last week in the U.K but it came as no surprise that the results where negative :?

Like you and many people have said It seems Dr Simka’s and Dr Zamboni’s Doppler papers are not enough for radiologists to understand this correctly.

Maybe Dr Zamboni and his ultrasound technician Erica Menegatti would consider producing a detail video explaining this test.
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Postby Camilla » Mon Dec 21, 2009 5:19 am

I had another chat with my technician friend, who has spoken to a radiologist she knows in Italy, who knows some people trained with Zamboni etc and they say the key is experience.

Trying out the testing on 'normal' people is especially important. The technician I went to is now going to try some more tests on non-Msers and then try me again.

There is a video of the procedure (the research thread on this site) but a more detailed one would be great!

Camilla
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Postby CureOrBust » Tue Dec 22, 2009 2:01 am

Camilla wrote:Did he/she find stenosis while doing the test first time round?
His sonographer was female. From my understanding, Zamboni's test, do not actually look for a specific stenosis. They look for flow abnormalities, which would be possibly caused by many different abnormalities (ie not just stenosis). The sonographer only found that I failed one of the five tests. ie a Reflux in my IJV. I asked the neurologist before the exams if I would fail any of the tests, and he said no.

However, he did say that they found no stenosis, which means they probably looked for it as well during the exam.

I have also had an MRV of my upper neck and head. No stenosis was evident there either. The MRV does show that my Jugulars on one side are slightly smaller than the other. Currently I am trying to organise an MRV from my diaphragm to the top of my head.
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Postby whyRwehere » Tue Dec 22, 2009 2:09 am

Camilla wrote:I had another chat with my technician friend, who has spoken to a radiologist she knows in Italy, who knows some people trained with Zamboni etc and they say the key is experience.

Trying out the testing on 'normal' people is especially important. The technician I went to is now going to try some more tests on non-Msers and then try me again.

There is a video of the procedure (the research thread on this site) but a more detailed one would be great!

Camilla


Exactly what I am trying to say. And until they have that experience, their opinion is not worth much.
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Postby Mutley » Tue Dec 22, 2009 6:15 am

From what I saw from the images I was given in Poland, the restriction in my right Jugular was quite low down, sort of under my collar bone. Turning my neck 90 degrees to the left or right also made a massive difference to the bloodflow too.

I would certainly agree that it's experience that counts with these tests and people ideally need to engage with someone who is really going out of their way to find a problem, as opposed to someone who is just trying to prove that you don't have a problem. Sadly, at this moment most will fall into the latter category.
Mutley goes to Poland 1st symptom was Optic Neuritis in 1998, DX RRMS Jan 2001, DX SPMS 2007. Last EDSS by doctor 7.5
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