Valves vs stenoses

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Valves vs stenoses

Postby greyman » Sun Dec 27, 2009 11:50 pm

Hi
I was wondering if anybody knows what is the difference between procedures in the cases of having valves or stenoses in the jugulars. Is there any difference at all?
So, how does it look like when one has badly working valves and how with "just" stenoses?
I have those valves in both jugulars which cause blood travel both ways, instead of only heartwards. I remember Dr. Simka saying that most probably they'll be able to "destroy" (?) them with ballooning, but still - any responses appreciated.
Regards,
Adam.
Last edited by greyman on Mon Dec 28, 2009 3:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Valves vs stenoses

Postby Johnson » Mon Dec 28, 2009 1:17 am

greyman wrote:Hi
I was wondering if anybody knows what is the difference in procedures in the cases of having valves or stenoses in the jugulars. Is there any difference at all?
So, how does it look like when one has badly working valves and how with "just" stenoses?
I have those valves in both jugulars which cause blood travel both ways, instead of only heartwards. I remember Dr. Simka saying that most probably they'll be able to "destroy" (?) them with ballooning, but still - any responses appreciated.
Regards,
Adam.


Interesting questions, Adam.

I am not so up on my anatomy as I might be to comment clearly, but I am having some confusion over valves in the jugulars. I have read reports of a few people here that they had "inverted valves" and "membranes" that were interrupting blood-flow. I understand that at least one person's "membrane" may have been pierced in an aborted venogram (Phil?), and another had an inverted valve ballooned, with redemption.

Personally, I would think that I would be happier to have a faulty valve, or a membrane than "just" stenosis. Valves and membranes are more easily explained than stenosis, I would think.

What causes the stenosis? Infection? Would that be a blood infection? Endothelial infection? Bacterial? or viral? Perhaps mechanical, But what mechanism? Cyst growth? Bone growth? Trauma? What about RRMS?SPMS?PPMS? Azygos vein, or internal jugular? Sub-clavian, or inter-cranial? Vertebral Veins? Combination?

Then the question would be; balloon venoplasty? or stent? I would prefer the balloon.

I can actually see where the consternation of academics comes in: too many questions, and not enough answers - which must be found before proceeding. We with MS, however, have one answer (CCSVI), and not enough questions. Let us proceed.

/useless babble
My name is not really Johnson. MSed up since 1993
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Re: Valves vs stenoses

Postby Zeureka » Wed Jan 27, 2010 2:35 am

greyman wrote:Hi
I was wondering if anybody knows what is the difference between procedures in the cases of having valves or stenoses in the jugulars. Is there any difference at all?
So, how does it look like when one has badly working valves and how with "just" stenoses?
I have those valves in both jugulars which cause blood travel both ways, instead of only heartwards. I remember Dr. Simka saying that most probably they'll be able to "destroy" (?) them with ballooning, but still - any responses appreciated.
Regards,
Adam.

I am just researching exactly the same question. What is currently the best treatment for "pathologic valves". It seems Simka and Dake do ballooning and/or stents not only for stenosis, but also valve problems. Zamboni also only did balloniong/stents it would seem in his research.

Has anyone got their faulty valves operated in another way, and did the doctor explain why they applied the specific technique - versus the other existing ones?

Thanks for your input!

Steffi
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Postby shye » Wed Jan 27, 2010 4:27 am

Yes, I don't understand how balooning, or stents, coulf fix a faulty valve.

And Johnson, the stenosis could be caused I think from atherosclerotic build-up of calcium, cholesterol etc plaque. That is why I think Chelation (EDTA) would be of great help.
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Postby Algis » Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:08 am

Ballooning could 'reverse' a valve when:

1) Pass the valve in ascending flow
2) Inflate
3) Retract while inflated
4) The valve will flip and the flow will insure it keeps go that way
5) Deflate
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Postby Zeureka » Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:14 am

Algis wrote:Ballooning could 'reverse' a valve when:

1) Pass the valve in ascending flow
2) Inflate
3) Retract while inflated
4) The valve will flip and the flow will insure it keeps go that way
5) Deflate

Wow, thanks Algis, did you study medical sciences or did a specialist tell you that? Maybe problematic that the valve might flip back after a while?
And could stents block the valve?
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Postby colmmc » Sat Jan 30, 2010 4:42 am

Hi greyman

How are you know?any improvements or have they subsided.

colmmc
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Postby greyman » Sat Jan 30, 2010 9:21 am

colmmc wrote:How are you know?any improvements or have they subsided.


Hi,
thanks for asking, I'm quite ok, to be honest. The positive effects that showed up after the procedure seem to be staying with me. I still have worse and better days, but both can't be compared to what was before the op, meaning that worse is 1/10*before op and better is 5*before op.
Adam
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Postby colmmc » Sat Jan 30, 2010 10:20 am

Thanks, I hope the improvements continue.
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Postby wonky1 » Sat Jan 30, 2010 10:33 am

Good to hear you're doing well Greyman.

The questions about valves I did my best to answer on the thread
Poland part 2 , second page I think.

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Postby Zeureka » Sat Jan 30, 2010 12:24 pm

Thanks wonky for explaining it so well there! So with a stent one can actually fix the valve to stay in the right direction. And it seems the valve is not always required in its function, depending on where it's placed in the vein. That's good to know.
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