Phlebotomy anyone?

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Postby katie45 » Wed Feb 03, 2010 4:07 pm

just to let you know...I'm in BC canada, my dghter just got back from her dr. who told her they had just rec'd notice that they are not to run ferritin sat. test on 'suspected' HH. only if patient has a 'confirmed' dirrect relative. Think we've started something...
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Postby Merlyn » Wed Feb 03, 2010 5:19 pm

Wow... I will not be surprised if a few of us are rather shaken by upcoming future events. Say we are right (and I think we are), and phlebotomy cures the problem rather than masks... we can crash the whole MS industry, and I don't believe anybody in the pharmaceutical industry is going to be very happy with us. My guess is I am going to have to find a way to self treat because I don't have the standard signs of iron loading... my guess is that primary progressive people simply load iron at a very slow steady rate and we won't see remarkably high ferritin or high transferrin, but decades of accumulation of iron being deposited all over the map of the body results in slowly accumulating disability like mine.

I also think this accumulating iron is why people with MS test so incredibly toxic for those that do this. My last heavy metals challenge test using zeolite showed barium high off the scale. I have never done any of the barium medical tests or had ongoing exposure that I know of...

As a weird sort of side note over the last three or four months, my palms have been getting so red that it is the color of alarming! Another sign of iron overloading? If so, I am packing it in had an extraordinary rate...
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Postby shye » Wed Feb 03, 2010 5:40 pm

Merlyn,
barium (and aluminum) are high in chemtrails--and of course both have been linked to neurological problems.

Have you thought of EDTA chelation? I just had my first drip yesterday (disodium EDTA)--after every few sessions, I will have metals tested--I did not do initial test, just know that I have Calcium buildup in arteries, for that alone I will chelate, but it should take out lots more than the calcium plaque. When I get first results, i'll reactivate chelation post, and record results there. But I think it might help you.
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Postby katie45 » Wed Feb 03, 2010 5:43 pm

M, RED PALMS! THAT'S ME TOO, BIG TIME FOR YEARS NOW...SORRY for the caps..phoned for results again today, dr. would not come to phone, left me on hold, i hung up after 1 1/2 hrs. something is really wrong with this...i'm considering the leeches...heard it's not bad at all and it would be 15 min for about 1/3 amount of blood....might be easier on people in bad shape?
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Postby jimmylegs » Wed Feb 03, 2010 6:21 pm

any scaling going on with the red hand thing? or is it just discoloration?
READ ME key info on nutrient targets - www.thisisms.com/ftopict-2489.html
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Postby katie45 » Wed Feb 03, 2010 7:39 pm

jimmy, for me it seems to be just beet red palms. more noticable one time than others...believe we've all simply been poisoned...some more vulnerable than others, some longer than others.... I've tried edta for some long months as well as many other chelators and have arrived at the realization I need to go the 'old school' tried and tested bottom line remedy. No more pharmaceutical remedies for me...believe the body knows how to heal itself if we would stop poisoning it and give it time....
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Postby Bethr » Thu Feb 04, 2010 12:51 am

katie45 wrote:just to let you know...I'm in BC canada, my dghter just got back from her dr. who told her they had just rec'd notice that they are not to run ferritin sat. test on 'suspected' HH. only if patient has a 'confirmed' dirrect relative. Think we've started something...


Interesting, as apparently the transferrin saturation was once upon a time a standard part of iron studies. It was dropped for some reason. Wonder why?
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Postby katie45 » Thu Feb 04, 2010 1:06 am

Bethr...I think the preverbial cat has been let out of the bag.
How dare we want to search for 'real' answers eh? I would expect fixing this
disorder may be a cure-all for neuro disease and we just can't have that now can we. Guess their 'keep them dumbed down' drugs weren't quite enough!! What would these geniuses do without all these manufactured diseases to cure? Look out for the next route they use to create illness. You can be sure
it'll be some 'new' disease. We have to find some way to come together and put a stop to all this !
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Postby Algis » Thu Feb 04, 2010 1:29 am

Just had half liter drawn this morning by my friend (she's a nurse).
No real change. I "may" feel a bit weaker but after lunch I felt ~same~ as yesterday.

She said I may have to take some zinc, as other already said here. I'll get that later.

Will report if anything happen.

Cheers!
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bloodletting via leeches

Postby jak7ham9 » Thu Feb 04, 2010 6:27 am

Hello everyone! I braved the ordering of the leeches for experimental sake. Oh my what an experiment. The arrived at my door in a stainless thermos. My kids were "ewwww gross:. They look kind of black and skinny. I bought 20 at $8per. Ok I decided to try . I let them crawl on by one onto my cold purplr feet and ankles. They latched on first one side and then the other end. No pain. A vaugue sucking sensation at first Then they went to town undulating as they sucked and greatly increasing in size as they sucked. Wow a little freaky. My kids were squawking adn squeaking. NowI was told they finished sucking after 15 min and fell off. Now the most vigurous leeches did balloon up fast and then released. I then grabbed them a popped them in fresh water jar(no chlorine). After they are full they do no try to eat again fot a month or so. So far so good.
But some leeches are slow and it took them almost an hour to fall off. Now what I was not prepared for was the afterflow. Usually you can expect aprox the same amount of blood to flow out as the leech sucked which is a supposed benefit of bloodletting. The leeches are full of large amount of interesting chemicalls one being a power anticoagulant. Now a more knowleagable person would have had a supply of silver nitrate. This would have stoppedthe bleeding when I was ready no problem. Now being a stupid twit I blled all over. Soaked five towels, pools of bloood on floor. Lovely! Thought it had stopped but remember they were on my feet so when I was walking around a 3am to pee puddles of blood at feet again. Well the leaches probably sucked 15ml per plus I lost at least same amount after so 300ml plus 300ml removed. Good news is by next morning no more bleeding. Again I could have been prepared!. Now I will say I feel good I am less tight and my feet are more normal temperature color and less swollen. I am afraid to test out too much walking until I make sure no more bleeding for sure. Will let you know.barbara
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Postby katie45 » Thu Feb 04, 2010 11:33 am

wow! thanks for this post, it's great to know. How many did you have attached at once? is silver nitrate easy to get or anything else work as well?
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Postby Merlyn » Thu Feb 04, 2010 12:34 pm

Barbara-I felt like one of your kids reading this... Eowh! It is interesting though, I did not know it would cause continuing bleeding after the leeches were removed. Let us know how you feel as a result. I am mentally trying to figure out whether I am brave enough to try it. I have a thing about worms, I absolutely detest them... snakes are okay, go figure.

I go to the Dr. in a couple hours to ask for a couple of phlebotomies. The only thing in my favor is that I have had the same Dr. for five years and he knows that if something doesn't work for me, I drop it. And I am not in his office all that much, I don't ask to try much. So I am hoping he cooperates.
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Postby ForeverSpring » Thu Feb 04, 2010 12:54 pm

Barbara, bravo, woman! :)

I have been thinking about you and wondering if the leeches had arrived yet. Are your children school-aged? If so, they will surely tell all their friends about Mama and her bloodsuckers! :lol:

It sounds like it went well, considering it was your first time with them. Whenever we tackle something that is new to us, there is always a learning curve and some mishaps along the way. My granddaughter received a bicycle for her 4th birthday. When I asked her if she had ridden it yet, she broke out with a big grin and said, “Yes, and I had my first crash!” :lol: All progress comes with some crashes along the way!

ForeverSpring
Last edited by ForeverSpring on Sat Feb 06, 2010 7:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Merlyn » Thu Feb 04, 2010 12:59 pm

Foreverspring-congratulations on your findings! Please let us know how the phlebotomy treatment unfolds. When I think about how much iron it would take to clog up major veins, we are talking grams and grams and grams I believe. And the only thing that I can see out there that can explain such abnormal absorption is hemochromatosis. Please let us know whether you have any genetic testing done...

I don't know yet whether iron overload is my problem, I can make a case for it, but I can also make a case for mercury poisoning due to the way I react to sulfur... mercury interferes with thiol metabolism, and my sulfur metabolism is totally deranged. I don't know whether iron can do the same, but now I just want to try of the phlebotomy and see how I feel. If I can improve with it, then perhaps I can go after the other toxic metals that I know I have onboard. Andrew Cutler PhD says that the people who get poisoned/toxic are the people with abnormal metabolism. I suspect that it is either my three kidneys that have caused metal accumulation (they have known for decades that people with renal problems collect heavy metals) or maybe the iron accumulation shut down liver pathways and then you collect more and more xenobiotics. Who knows? I am so tired of trying to figure out why I melted down, the only thing I want now is try something that could possibly help the misery. I do know that since I hit menopause, the rate of progression is 10 times faster.
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Postby happy_canuck » Thu Feb 04, 2010 1:17 pm

Barbara -- wow, I was captivated reading your account of the process. My internal narrative went something like "Will they fall off in time?" "Will the bleeding stop?" Fascinating!

Did you feed all 20 of them and now you wait another month or did you feed half?

Sandra
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