L'Hermitte's sign and MS Diagnosis

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

L'Hermitte's sign and MS Diagnosis

Postby Ruthless67 » Mon Dec 28, 2009 10:53 pm

L'Hermitte's sign was brought up on another tread and when I looked it up and read it’s description, I tilted my head forward, and Bingo! There was the tingling! I just now get it’s connection to CCSVI! And I’m dumbfounded that this is the first I’ve heard of it when it’s said to be "a very common symptom of MS."

This is the description I found and thought I'd pass it on to others who might not be aware.

Lora


L'Hermitte's sign describes electrical buzzing sensations in the limbs and body brought on by movement of the neck. These sensations are known as paraesthesia and include tingling, buzzing, electrical shocks, partial numbness and sharp pains. L'Hermitte's is most often triggered by lowering the head so that the chin touches the chest. The sensations usually only last for a second or two. It has been called the "barber shop" symptom because it is often evoked when the hairdresser asks you to lower your head when he or she shaves the back of your neck.
L'Hermitte's is associated with a number of conditions including arthritis, cervical spondylosis, disc compression, pernicious anaemia, tumours and multiple sclerosis. In many cases, the cause cannot be found.
Because the cervical spinal cord is a frequent target for multiple sclerosis it is a very common symptom of MS. Aproximately two thirds of people with multiple sclerosis experience L'Hermitte's symptom at some point during the course of their disease.
In MS, L'Hermitte's is an indicator of lesions in the cervical spine (the part of spine in the neck). Movement of the neck causes the damaged nerves (the demyelinated neurons) to be stretched and send erroneous signals. The symptoms can occur anywhere below the neck and many people with MS find that it moves around their body from one day to the next.

Here the link to a study on:

Sensory symptoms of multiple sclerosis
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Re: L'Hermitte's sign and MS Diagnosis

Postby euphoniaa » Tue Dec 29, 2009 2:34 am

Ruthless67 wrote:I just now get it’s connection to CCSVI!



So...did you find a connection to CCSVI?
Dx'd with MS & HNPP (hereditary peripheral neuropathy) 7/03 but must have had MS for 30 yrs before that. I've never taken meds for MS except 1 yr experiment on LDN. (I found diet, exercise, sleep, humor, music help me the most.)
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Postby Ruthless67 » Tue Dec 29, 2009 11:02 am

euphoniaa,

No I didn't find a connection to CCSVI medically or professionally, more of a personal ah-ha moment, or like my 9 year old granddaughter says, "I get it now!" I've had this neck tingle for some time, never knew it was MS related; thought it was just me and too much time in front of the computer. But to me now it makes more sense when I think about the tingling and electrical buzzing sensations in the limbs when I lower my head. If in fact MS'ers have stenosis of the veins draining the blood out of the brain and if tilting the head forward further restricts that blood flow, in MHO that could trigger the sensation. Just my personal musing from a layperson with MS.


"L'Hermitte's is associated with a number of conditions including arthritis, cervical spondylosis, disc compression, pernicious anaemia, tumours and multiple sclerosis."

I have had so many of these ah-ha moments since finding the TIMS forum, some of them, for me are big ones, other like this are smaller, but all of them are fascinating to me. Just thought others might find it interesting.

Lora
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Postby nicko » Tue Dec 29, 2009 5:41 pm

I remember before I was diagnosed, I was doing alot of research on my symptoms. The L'Hermitte's sign I had at the time was pretty bad and it pretty much clarified the fact that I had MS. Along with the other erratic neurological symptoms at the time pretty much ruled out a back injury of any type. B12 was ruled out with a few blood tests.

The first visit to my neurologist I told him I'm pretty sure I have MS. He gave me a look like I was crazy for a second. But at the end of the visit, I said it looks like ms right. He said yes it does, but we need a MRI to confirm.
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Postby jay123 » Tue Dec 29, 2009 8:51 pm

this is a ccsvi thread though...
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Postby Salvatore24 » Tue Dec 29, 2009 10:50 pm

The only time I get L'Hermitte's sign, is after I have been lying down. Coincidence?
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Postby Ruthless67 » Tue Dec 29, 2009 11:53 pm

Nicko,

That's what I'm kind of thinking. L'Hermitte's sign has been around for some time now as a diagnostic tool for MS and to me, they seem to fit together. I mean it's maybe a small thing, but isn't it still possible that it’s a temporary worsening of the stenosis of the same veins we are looking into with CCSVI, and that is what’s causing the temporary symptoms?

Salvatore24,

I think you might be right Sal, I believe you could get the same temporary symptoms from lying down. In the description of L'Hermitte's sign it states.

Movement of the neck causes the damaged nerves (the demyelinated neurons) to be stretched and send erroneous signals. The symptoms can occur anywhere below the neck and many people with MS find that it moves around their body from one day to the next.”

So again this is why I think L'Hermitte's sign fits in the CCSVI theory.

Lora
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