Billmeik wrote: I mean take lumbar punctures. There is a massive tradition of doctors checking the pressure of cerebrospinal blood flow. To tell them there is reflux going on that wouldn't show in those pressure readings is a leap...
I have posted it already in the research sticky but I think it is good to repost it here. The joint study mentioned is the following:cheerleader wrote:[...]
The joint Buffalo/Italy study is the endovascular treatment study mentioned above, which was published last month...it included 16 patients, 8 from Italy and 8 from the US.[...]
I keep thinking that if some of his MS patients had Hughes Syndrome instead of MS he could have cured them. And since Hughes Syndrome was only lately recognised and some patients were misdiagnosed as having MS, we do not only have an animal model of venous MS but also a human one.cheerleader wrote:[...]The reason it is important to discuss historical facts like "Putnam's dogs" is because we can learn from history. MS patients pushed Dr. Putnam for THE CURE! and he was unable to keep his research going...he tried addressing the venous issues he discovered with blood thinners, and it did not work. MS patients were discouraged and medicine moved on to the EAE theory.[...]
patientx wrote:Just curious - did anyone actually read the entire paper on Putnam's dog experiments?
Dogs of various ages were operated on with aseptic precautions...
the longitudinal sinus was ligated in two places in such a way as to isolate a portion of it into which one or more cortical veins entered. The sinus was pierced with a fine needle, and a mass was injected in such a way as to run backward, upstream, into the cerebral veins, thereby obstructing them
The lesions found in the remaining ten animals varied according to the agent used to produce the obstruction...
In one instance a colloidal solution of French shellac was injected, with the result that the animal died on the following day. The dog's brain showed a pathologic picture resembling that of "hemorrhagic encephalitis" which is ascribed to arsphenamine poisoning. In two experiments a sterile suspension of corn-starch was employed, which produced areas of complete softening. The most satisfactory substances for the purpose in view were found to be various mixtures of oil. Lard oil, which is of course identical with the fat in the animal's own blood, was usually employed, on the grounds that such a bland and physiologic substance could scarcely exert a chemical influence on the vessels or on their surroundings.
The only drawback was that when injected under pressure sufficient to force it to the venules it was apt to rupture from smaller vessels and form tiny cysts, chiefly in the border between the cortex and the white matter. Individual droplets of this kind lay inert in the tissue without provoking gliosis or encystment (fig. 2), but if they occured in groups there were often some actual destruction of the tissue and scarring.
The similarity between such lesions and many of those seen in cases of multiple sclerosis in man is so striking that the conclusion appears almost inevitable that venular obstruction is the essential immediate antecedent to the formation of typical sclerotic plaques.
while a productive thing to do while waiting is to read Putnam's amazing dog studies from 1936
The reason it is important to discuss historical facts like "Putnam's dogs" is because we can learn from history. MS patients pushed Dr. Putnam for THE CURE! and he was unable to keep his research going...he tried addressing the venous issues he discovered with blood thinners, and it did not work. MS patients were discouraged and medicine moved on to the EAE theory. Perhaps if Putnam had not been rushed or pushed for a cure, he may have continued on in his venous studies.
Billmeik wrote:the details of that Putnam paper are bad news to me. Its old too. Still I bet someone at stanford is finding out the real story right now...
will be good to find out.
Users browsing this forum: No registered users