How deep for autoject?

A board to discuss the Multiple Sclerosis modifying drug Copaxone

How deep for autoject?

Postby Wonderfulworld » Fri Oct 13, 2006 12:53 pm

Hi
been on Copaxone 2.5 years, but still bruising a lot and now have extensive lipoatrophy. Not a pretty sight 8O
Copaxone nurse visited recently and was shocked at my legs.
She said I needed to increase needle depth.
I put it up to 7 for my leg, but I hit muscle, got a severe cramp that lasted half an hour, hopping around groaning.
6 seems to work on less fleshy areas, 7 I can get away with on stomach and upper thighs.
Is this the depth others are using?
Has the depth anythingn to do with lipoatrophy?
Thanks
WW
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Postby Toyoterry » Fri Oct 13, 2006 4:20 pm

I have always used 6 since I've been on Copaxone. Most of the time it hasn't been a problem. Sometimes it seems that if I don't get the needle in straight I have more of a reaction.
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Postby dealing » Fri Oct 13, 2006 5:18 pm

only been on copaxone for a month, the first week i was set to 6 and got bruising on my hip and legs, called shared soltions they said go to 4 i did and 4 2 weeks not a problem no bruising nothing, then 2 days did my hip and got quite a bruise? so this is a good question as your settings are completely different then mine and yet we are both bruising??
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Postby Wonderfulworld » Sat Oct 14, 2006 2:01 am

Thanks for replies Terry and Dealing.
I think 6 is about right for me too Terry, but I had been using 4 or 5 for years up until the nurse saw all the lipatrophy recently.
I'd check with Copaxone if 4 is too shallow Dealing, because I have a feeling that it might have contributed to my "dents" and bruises.
I have started warming the area first, injecting, then putting a cooling pack on it, and then massaging the area the next day. There does seem to be less hard lumps but time will tell with the lipoatrphy.
WW
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Bruising

Postby lyndacarol » Sat Oct 14, 2006 5:54 am

I am not currently taking any of the ABC drugs, but had an issue with bruising when I took Betaseron, then Avonex, then Copaxone; even had a problem before I took any. Since I was on any, I have still had bruises appear for no reason! Then I started Vitamin D supplementation (with 3000 IU, then 4000 IU) and about 4 months in I noticed that bruises didn't come anymore. Any connections? Who can say for sure? But I'm a believer.
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Postby Loriyas » Sat Oct 14, 2006 7:31 am

I had a problem with lipoatrophy but when I called Teva they said that wasn't a typical side effect. They should see my legs and then say it's not a side effect! They suggested changing the needle depth anyway to 6, which I did. That was about 2 1/2 years ago and it seemed to help. They also said that I didn't have to inject in my arms, just torso, hips, legs. That also helped. So my needle depth is 6 for all areas.

I'm curious how you got the Copaxone nurse to visit. When I was on Betaseron I had one visit from the nurse. When I was switched to Copaxone I did not have a visit from anyone. It would be nice to at least get a call or something from them occasionally. Follow-up would be nice.

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Postby Wonderfulworld » Sat Oct 14, 2006 12:45 pm

Thanks Lynda and Lori
Lynda, that's very interesting about vit D - I'm a bit nervous about taking that amount of vit d, I take max 1,000 IU, and I'm even a bit worried about that. How do you monitor the level in your body?

Lori, I agree, I am having less lumps at 6/7 depending on the area. Lipoatrophy is definitely a side effect, typical or not. The nurse said it is a lot more common that they would have even thought 5 years ago. That's dreadful you've never got support on Copaxone, I'm shocked. It could be that we have better services here in Ireland. All I have to do is ring the Copaxone nurse whenever I need her and she visits in a couple of days, and they phone back and check on you afterwards etc. That's really bad that you don't have the same support.
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Postby lyndacarol » Sat Oct 14, 2006 1:10 pm

WW, to answer your concerns:
I'm a bit nervous about taking that amount of vit d, I take max 1,000 IU, and I'm even a bit worried about that. How do you monitor the level in your body?


Vitamin D has been in the news here LOTS this summer. An item on National Public Radio (NPR) on June 22, summed it up in understandable language: researchers now think people need much more D than previously thought. The US government will review the recommended amount in the next year or two. The expectation is that 4000 IU will be the new standard; the Cooper Institute in Dallas is already recommending that amount.

You would have to swallow a hundred of your capsules per day before you got into trouble with toxicity!

Read the forums here on Vitamin D (and Mega D; also in the insulin general discussion, I repeated a couple GOOD links).

A physician can order a blood test (25-hydroxyvitaminD) to monitor levels; here it costs $68.75, not a bad cost even if the patient pays it completely without insurance.
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Postby Azile » Sun Oct 15, 2006 7:45 am

Just remember, it's different with everyone. Also the depth is different in different places on the body. You have a different amount of fat in different areas. You might have more in your belly than you do in your arm or leg, for example. So the needle might work better at 7 in your belly but night need to be set to 5 in your arm or leg. Your back might work at 6. It's all a matter of trial and err.

When I didn't have the allergy to Copaxone, I found I needed to change my depth all the time. My leg is very muscular so 6 was all I could do. I am a little overweight so 7-8 worked fine with my belly depending on where I injected. I had a tire, so 6-7 did just fine in my back. I had to do 4-5 in my arm since that was fairly thin. It all varies.
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Postby Wonderfulworld » Sun Oct 15, 2006 9:41 am

Thanks Azile,
I too have muscular legs, 6 is max there for legs for me too, well - I realised that after the muscle spasm last week!
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