Please help! Comparing the different diets

A board to discuss various diet-centered approaches to treating or controlling Multiple Sclerosis, e.g., the Swank Diet

Please help! Comparing the different diets

Postby Kate925 » Thu Jun 02, 2011 7:36 am

I've been looking into some of the different MS diets (Swank, Jelinek, Terry Wahls, and others) and I don't know what to do. I have severely restricted my diet the past few weeks and added a lot of supplements, but I don't know if it makes any real difference.

I'm feeling desperate and despondent, and I need all the help I can get.

If you have tried any of these diets, could you please tell me how they worked for you? I would really appreciate knowing about your experience with them. Thank you.
User avatar
Kate925
Getting to Know You...
 
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed May 04, 2011 2:00 pm

Advertisement

Postby daverestonvirginia » Thu Jun 02, 2011 10:09 am

I know it can be hard to decide what to do, so first I would say take your time there is no rush to make up your mind. Also, if you select a diet and it does not seem to be working for you, no big deal you can change it.

I have been on the best bet diet for five years now. Although at first it seems restrictive you are really just getting a lot of things you really should never have been eating out of your diet. I found over the long run it has proven to be a very healthy way to eat.

Just as a warning as such, once I had been on the diet for maybe two months I just felt really bad. I guess it is your body wanting all that bad stuff you use to eat back, but after a little more time I started to feel really good. Remember these diets are for the long run, out really short term fixes.
User avatar
daverestonvirginia
Family Elder
 
Posts: 182
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2007 2:00 pm
Location: Reston, Virginia

Postby syckbastid » Thu Jun 02, 2011 10:28 am

I'm 6.5 years into my MS journey (still RRMS)... After my second acute attack, that left me with disability in my hands and sensory issues from the neck down, I restricted my diet considerably. In a sense, I unknowingly began following a modified Wahl diet (I limited grains/dairy rather than eliminate them). The combination of this diet and weightlifting/cardio 5 days a week (during my lunch hour) has helped me drop 35 pounds (and gotten my body fat to around 10%).

At my worst during this attack my EDSS was 2.5 - 3.0 (according to my neuro). Currently she says I'm a 0, but I say .5 because I still feel a difference.

I've cut the dairy/grains even more since learning about the Wahl protocol, and upped my veggies considerably... I supplement vit D, fish oil, b-complex, calcium, magnesium, zinc, and curcumin. I also drink tons of green tea.

Diet is important, but I feel that excercise is even more essential.
syckbastid
Family Member
 
Posts: 82
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2007 3:00 pm

Postby maynaka » Thu Jun 02, 2011 10:32 am

Kate,

I've been following the Wahls diet for a little over three months.

The foods I'm eating now are quite different than before the diet. I eat kale everyday (5 to 6 cups), organic fruits and vegetables, salmon, chicken, etc.

Wahl's book "Minding my Mitochondia" has a lot of recipes. We basically have variations of her meals.

In order to stay on it, I do go off of it every week or so for a day. I have stayed glutten and dairy free. I usually have a smoothie everyday for lunch (filled with kale and fruit).

Walking is my only symptom and I haven't really seen any improvement yet. Since there isn't anything else out there I'll be sticking with it for awhile.

Her research makes a lot of sense and it certainly can't hurt.

M
User avatar
maynaka
Family Elder
 
Posts: 110
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2006 3:00 pm
Location: Chicago area

Re: Please help! Comparing the different diets

Postby scorpion » Thu Jun 02, 2011 12:36 pm

Kate925 wrote:I've been looking into some of the different MS diets (Swank, Jelinek, Terry Wahls, and others) and I don't know what to do. I have severely restricted my diet the past few weeks and added a lot of supplements, but I don't know if it makes any real difference.

I'm feeling desperate and despondent, and I need all the help I can get.

If you have tried any of these diets, could you please tell me how they worked for you? I would really appreciate knowing about your experience with them. Thank you.


My advice would be do not waste time on diets and supplements(unless your doctor feels you need them) and just try to eat as healthy as you can and stay as active as possible!
User avatar
scorpion
Family Elder
 
Posts: 1323
Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2008 3:00 pm

Postby tzootsi » Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:29 pm

The diet thing can be confusing - the Swank diet is the least restrictive, the Best Bet and MS Recovery Diet are a little more so. Most likely, different people react differently to certain foods. However, lowering saturated fats and eating more veggies is a no brainer. Dairy and gluten have been suspect for years, so eliminating them or at least cutting back, is probably a good idea. See the direct-ms and MS Recovery Diet websites for tons of info.
User avatar
tzootsi
Family Elder
 
Posts: 373
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2009 3:00 pm

Postby Kate925 » Thu Jun 02, 2011 5:17 pm

Thanks for all the replies.

It was my understanding that the diet is kind of an "all or nothing" situation, that you have to make a commitment to follow it absolutely, otherwise you're negating the effect by occasionally eating the forbidden foods.

I gave up sugar and grains over a year ago, but I'm struggling with the idea of giving up all dairy.

I'm trying to eat kale and more vegetables.

One problem I'm finding is that one diet will say to eat mushrooms every day and another diet will say that you should never eat mushrooms because they're a fungus. One diet says to eat tomatoes, and another one says to avoid tomatoes.

It's helpful to know what has or has not worked for others. I'm impressed by Terry Wahls' remarkable recovery, but I wonder if it has worked for anyone else.
User avatar
Kate925
Getting to Know You...
 
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed May 04, 2011 2:00 pm

Postby jimmylegs » Thu Jun 02, 2011 6:10 pm

for me it's not the diet per se, it's understanding which nutrients my body needs, via research and lab work, and figuring out a plan of diet and supplementation that works for me as an individual. i don't buy the all or nothing approach. i like the idea of balancing pro and anti inflammatory foods. my background is strict vegan and that landed me with permanent spinal cord damage so i'm personally over the strict no-dairy thing. been there, done that, still have an ms dx! also i know my diet led to zinc deficiency, supported by lab work, and that was when i was at my most cognitively impaired. fixed the zinc deficiency, and my brain started working again. figured out later (without lab results to support, just hypothesis based on research) that i probably had ammonia toxicity secondary to zinc deficiency. diet is a big factor for ms patients, but everyone is an individual. sweeping diet recommendations are a bit sketch IMHO :)
jimmylegs
jimmylegs
Volunteer Moderator
 
Posts: 9105
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2006 3:00 pm

Postby jimmylegs » Thu Jun 02, 2011 6:14 pm

ps had some stress lately, plus waayyy more bread than usual due to free stuff kicking around at work, then sunshine exposure (and also i threw in my weekly vit d3 megadose), all of which would have made demands on my zinc stores, but i did not increase my zinc intake, and now here i am with a stupid cold. ugh!
jimmylegs
Volunteer Moderator
 
Posts: 9105
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2006 3:00 pm

Postby Kate925 » Thu Jun 02, 2011 7:28 pm

Jimmylegs, I've read a lot of your posts and am glad to have your input as well. Terry Wahls seems to advise strict adherence, which makes sense to me, because if something is bad for you, even a little would be bad. But on the other hand, maybe increasing the good things can help to balance out the not-so-good things. It's hard to know what will work, and it probably takes a long time to see how well it's working.

I'm wondering if there's really any evidence that dairy is bad for ms. I don't drink milk anyway, but I like other dairy products.

How does one develop ammonia toxicity?
User avatar
Kate925
Getting to Know You...
 
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed May 04, 2011 2:00 pm

Postby jimmylegs » Fri Jun 03, 2011 5:11 pm

hi kate no probs.

dairy is mildly inflammatory and some of the things you see in ms patients such as o-bands in the CSF, are indicative of chronic inflammation.

so to me that means it would make sense to dial down the pro-inflammatories, and boost the anti-inflammatories. i had latched onto the number 50 from past reading, however:

"A typical target for a single day is a combined IF Rating™ of 50 or higher. Those with inflammatory conditions or at increased risk for diseases linked with inflammation may try to reach a combined total of 200 or higher."

without having read dr wahls' protocol in detail, i can see the point of advocating food purism to be on the safe side - if you are not eating enough anti-inflammatory foods in the first place, then having small amounts of pro-inflammatory food could take you down below the 200 target.

BUT, with the right combo you can get your daily balance up into the high hundreds even with some pro-inflammatory intake - i would have to go back over my regimens thread to see the most recent calcs i've done on my own food intake.

re ammonia. "Protein metabolism presents some serious waste management challenges for the body. When protein is broken down, one of the by-products is ammonia. Ammonia is toxic, so our bodies have elaborate systems for getting rid of it. Most of the detoxifying work falls to our liver."

if your zinc stores are deficient, the urea cycle gets broken. the liver cannot then convert ammonia byproducts of protein catabolism, to urea and then to uric acid in order to detoxify and excrete it. so ammonia keeps building up in the body with the potential to reach dangerously toxic levels.

hth!
jimmylegs
Volunteer Moderator
 
Posts: 9105
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2006 3:00 pm

Postby ToniH » Sat Jun 04, 2011 8:49 pm

I too am interested in this Kate... there seems to be a lot of information about each, but not a lot about how individual people with different symptoms and relapse periods did after following the diets.

If anybody can recommend a vitamin & mineral-rich diet that doesn't require me to get rid of all red meat for the first year, that would be great. I'm anemic and I need all the iron I can get, plus I love a good steak :)
User avatar
ToniH
Family Member
 
Posts: 60
Joined: Mon May 02, 2011 2:00 pm

Postby jgkarob » Sun Jun 05, 2011 2:21 am

Hi - I do pretty well on the Paleolithic Diet. There's loads of free recipes available on the internet and you get to eat meat.
I don't eat dairy or gluten and feel pretty good.
I did get very tired of being ill in 06 and went on a rawfood diet for 6 months and it seemed to reset the MS. All my fatigue disappeared, but the diet was difficult to do and expensive - it involves pretty pricey kit, a blender, dehydrator, Champion juicer...
Paleo was a good way to go after the rawfood diet.
To be honest, (touch wood) I think that this gave me back a better quality of life - I wasn't as badly affected as Terry Wahls, but I was effectively housebound.
I've just 'unretired' myself and have gone back to 2 hours of operatic singing a day and aerobics with weights 3 times a week. I feel great and full of endorphins.
I do take D3 and have B12 injections every 2 weeks. It helps.
However - my MS is active and I take Rebif and LDN, plus a ton of hypertension medicines (MS did that) and thyroxine and I won't risk life without Rebif again. My MS isn't progressive, so cutting the relapse rate has been paramount in keeping my body mobile and active.
If you would like the link to free Paleo recipes, I'll post it.
best wishes,
jg
User avatar
jgkarob
Family Elder
 
Posts: 118
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2006 2:00 pm
Location: O Saviñao, Lugo, Galicia.

Postby jimmylegs » Sun Jun 05, 2011 4:30 am

hi toni you can eat a serving of beef tenderloin a week and it will provide you with needed iron (and zinc) :D
jimmylegs
Volunteer Moderator
 
Posts: 9105
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2006 3:00 pm

Postby scorpion » Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:50 am

Kate925 wrote:Jimmylegs, I've read a lot of your posts and am glad to have your input as well. Terry Wahls seems to advise strict adherence, which makes sense to me, because if something is bad for you, even a little would be bad. But on the other hand, maybe increasing the good things can help to balance out the not-so-good things. It's hard to know what will work, and it probably takes a long time to see how well it's working.

I'm wondering if there's really any evidence that dairy is bad for ms. I don't drink milk anyway, but I like other dairy products.

How does one develop ammonia toxicity?


There is very little evidence showing that there is any type of diet that provides a therapeutic benefit against MS. I found this article on the MS Society website.

Helping MS With Diet
From www.lovetoknow.com Author: Jennifer Chait
Helping MS with diet is a goal of many health care providers and patients. However, as there's not a single perfect MS diet available currently, sticking to optimum nutrition and healthy foods is a good starter plan.
A healthy overall diet may be key to helping MS.
What Is MS?
If you're here looking for information about helping MS with diet, then it's a good guess that you already know someone, or are someone, whose life has been affected by MS. We're going to be looking at diet help for MS in this article.
Can the Proper Diet Help MS?
MS is a complicated condition. Most of the time the variables present in MS make it difficult to say whether or not there's one MS friendly diet for everyone. Also, there's not a clear consensus among the medical and scientific community about a useful diet to help treat MS.
The best that most research can currently offer is that some diet adjustments may be helpful for people with MS, but there's no miracle diet plan for MS, no perfect diet plan for MS, and the same diets will likely work a bit differently for everyone.
That said, first, you can look at some of the current research revolving around MS and diet. Then speak with a health care professional about how this research and or diet plan may or may not be useful for your particular situation.
User avatar
scorpion
Family Elder
 
Posts: 1323
Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2008 3:00 pm

Next

Return to Diet

 


  • Related topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users


Contact us | Terms of Service