Wahls diet discussion

A board to discuss various diet-centered approaches to treating or controlling Multiple Sclerosis, e.g., the Swank Diet

Re: Wahls diet discussion

Postby desmalia » Thu Jan 12, 2012 8:33 pm

Dave, it's really encouraging to read that you're starting to see some benefits!

I've been loosely following Wahl's for about two months now. I was already dairy-free and egg-free due to intolerance to them right from birth. So that part was easy. I eased onto this diet by first just cutting out gluten and sugar. I wasn't eating much sugar to begin with, so that was not too hard. But I had about a week of gluten withdrawal that was pretty tough. My IBS kept acting up off and on for a few weeks as well, though it seems to have calmed down nicely now. Step two was getting into the habit of eating those nine cups of veggies & fruit every day. That is a challenge some days. I have been doing the kale chips every now and then and they're quite tasty, though they don't digest as well as I would like. I've been making a lot of red & rainbow chard, bok choi, lots of salads, etc. For my sulphur veggies, I recently made my first batch of cultured veggies (mostly cabbage, with lots of garlic, some carrots and zucchini), and that's been a good addition, also good for my digestion with all the non-dairy probiotics. For my coloured foods, so far it's been berries, carrots and beets, though I need to mix that up a bit more. For meat, I'm just eating a variety and trying to get non-medicated whenever possible, though it can be hard to get here sometimes. I need to start eating more fish than I am, so that's something to work on. I added liver, and started with beef liver. Bad idea, blech! lol. Next time I'll try chicken liver as I hear it's easier to tolerate. Hopefully I can make a nice paté or something. Overall, cooking is almost a workout on its own. I spend hours in the kitchen and am thankful that I'm able to do that. I also cook for my husband, but he won't eat this way, so that means making to separate sets of meals.

I'm completely gluten-free, but do allow an occasional item that may have traces of sugar. I'm also not being strict about limiting my meat as I do need my protein and fats. I'm pleased to say that I'm losing weight (much needed) and my appetite has dropped off significantly. So it becomes a battle to get enough food into me instead of having to starve myself. That's nice for a change. Most days I don't have any grains at all (there's just no room in my stomach!), but every now and then have some rice noodles or a bit of potato. I'm also having some nuts, mostly walnuts as Wahls suggests. And of course, as always I'm drinking lots and lots of water.

For supplements I'm taking magnesium, potassium, folic acid, iodine, liquid sublingual B complex (which took my B12 levels from too low to too high in two months, so I had to cut back on that a bit), D3, and cod liver oil. I'm planning to add zinc and copper next. With the high amount of greens in my diet now and also some almond milk, as well as having pseudo gout in my family history, I'm not eager to start a calcium supplement at this point.

I've ordered a tens/muscle stim unit and hope to have it by the end of the month. I didn't even realize Dr. Wahls used one as I don't have her book and just follow what I have seen from her online. I've heard of others with MS using them to help prevent muscle atrophy, and that sounds like a good idea. I also have chronic upper back pain, so I'm hoping it will help with that. I don't have much in the way of muscle weakness a this stage, but I think it is good to be prepared now and do what I can to build my strength. I'm also working out three times a week, primarily resistance training.

For whatever reason I've developed a wicked case of RLS that I cannot seem to get under control and it's destroying my sleep. My legs get crazy hot around midnight and then it's a battle to fight off the need to kick for the hours that follow. I bring ice packs to bed with me now and sleep with my legs out of the blankets, no matter how cold the room gets.

If it weren't for that I think I'd be able to say that the diet is helping my fatigue significantly. I'm still managing to do my job, but would love to be more functional! Usually folic acid gets rid of RLS for me right away, but no such luck this time around. I will not take prescription drugs for it as I feel strongly about avoiding them for as long as humanly possible. I tend to react badly to them.

The diet for me is still a work in progress, but I think it's definitely moving me in the right direction overall. Cutting out gluten was a big improvement for me and I don't want to go back to eating it again if possible. I've had IBS my whole life, so I don't expect even trying to balance my supplement intake will fix it. This was the article that initially convinced me to go gluten free shortly before being introduced to the Wahls diet. Interesting read:
http://www2.macleans.ca/2011/09/20/on-t ... ore-215040
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Re: Wahls diet discussion

Postby dkep11 » Fri Jan 20, 2012 6:37 am

The Continuing Adventures Of Dave The Intrepid Gastronaut; Wahls Diet 9 month update

MS has been hammering me since 1998 and nothing seems to slow it down. On 4/20/2011 I finally decided to go 100% on the Wahls diet. This is my 9-month report.

Dr Wahls' story is compelling. (see www.terrywahls.org) In 2007 she wasn't too far physically from where I am today. She changed her diet and by 2008 she could walk and ride her bike! That will get the complete attention of someone like me!

(she did other things in addition to diet changes, like eletronic muscle stimulation, meditation - but she thinks diet played the primary role in her recovery)

(and she was never as bad as I am now)

My version of the Wahls diet:

Lots of veggies, esp. sulfur-rich and leafy greens and bright colors.

Small amount of fruit, some grain (but no gluten!)(I do quinoa and rice), small amounts of meat (chicken, turkey, or seafood)(I avoid beef and pork).

ZERO gluten, dairy, sugar, yeast, legumes, red meat, processed food. I think the first 2 on this list are the important ones, and #3 (sugar) isn't far behind.

Low starch; I do eat some grapes or blueberries or corn on occasion. But never a potato or potato chips.

On month 3 I began including a commercial daily green drink; we use Green Magma.

Wahls is sort of the Swank diet (the first recommended MS diet) of today, except I'd say it trades an emphasis on low-fat for an emphasis on veggies.

Wahls = Paleo-diet + anti-inflamatory diet + extra veggies.

I started on this 100% on 4/20... Before, I was 90% on the diet - it isn't far from how I ate normally... but if you walked in with a pizza before 4/20/11 and offered me a slice, I'd have one. Today - no thanks.

For me, the hardest things to totally give up were pizza, bacon, and cheese. Pretty much everything else was EZ; I don't have a sweet tooth. In the old days, I'd eat sweets occasionally but I never crave them.

My wonderful wife Janelle is on board with the diet (she ought to be; she found it and directed me to it!) and the food prep - out of necessity; I can't do it.
 
VVV new stuff VVV

Still sticking 100% to the diet as defined above.

* My best pole-standing is now up to 100 seconds, up from the 85 from last month. Slowly improving... very slow. I need to remember it took 12 long years to get as disabled as I am; if I am improving at all, it will be a gradual recovery.

* OTOH, Dr. Wahls sez months 9-12 on the diet are good ones for her test cases - we'll see if it applies to me!

* My daughter Alyssa and I made some cookies, starting with a traditional peanut butter cookie recipe and making the following swaps
peanut butter => almond butter
butter => coconut oil
sugar => stevia
wheat flour => rice flour

Hey, not bad!

* My non-water drink of the moment: 2 c water, 1 tbp apple cider vinegar, 1 tbp stevia.

* Just read http://www.direct-ms.org/rogermcdougall.html - great inspirational reading for those attempt to address their MS via diet! Roger's "big 3" were the same as my diet; no gluten, no dairy, no sugar - and his recovery was gradual. I dare not hope my recovery - if it even exists - will be as complete!

* We have this, Swank, Wahls... and yet we don't hear about dietary options upon diagnosis. IF I get better, I'll do my best to change this locally.

* My daily supplement mix is always changing, but here it is today:

fibercon/lax: 2
mega efa:2x2000mg
Synergy once daily multi vite
vite d3: 2x 2000 iu (another 2000iu in daily multivite)
vite e: 400mg
CoQ10/ALA/ALC: 700 mg
calcium/magnesium
primal defense: 1
advan C 1000 mg every other day
milk thistle : 600 mg
vite b-50 every other day

with the above 4, I'm cutting down, I used to take 2x the amount listed. Reasons: $, the vitamin content of my food should be high.

There are also many things in my daily green drink, listed here http://www.vitacost.com/Green-Foods-Mag ... dientFacts

* The last few days before posting this I have been unusually weak; I've been unable to do my morning stand - at - the - pole at all.
Yesterday I had to sign something & couldn't.
Hopefully it's just a blip...

When diet is wrong medicine is of no use.
When diet is correct medicine is of no need.
~Ayurvedic Proverb

Gastronaut Dave, over and out
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Re: Wahls diet discussion

Postby lyndacarol » Sat Jan 21, 2012 9:56 am

Dave, congratulations on the 100 seconds of pole-standing!

As you may know, I have a few wild ideas about insulin; here is one of the latest ones: I think the sensation of anything "sweet" in the mouth, on the tongue's taste buds, or even in the esophagus causes increased insulin production. I think even Stevia could cause this. Would you try an experiment for me? Could the peanut butter cookies you made with Alyssa have brought on your recent change? Would you give up Stevia or anything sweet for a week or so and see if you notice any improvement in your pole-standing or overall strength?

I ask only because, like me, you seem willing to try this diet angle. I realize that the taste of "sweet" is fundamental to us human beings and may be a real hardship to give up – maybe even impossible to give up. Just an idea.
My hypothesis: excess insulin (hyperinsulinemia) plays a major role in MS, as developed in my initial post: http://www.thisisms.com/forum/general-discussion-f1/topic1878.html "Insulin – Could This Be the Key?"
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Re: Wahls diet discussion

Postby desmalia » Sat Jan 21, 2012 11:29 am

That's an interesting theory. I read about a study recently that showed high insulin in the body increases the possibility of developing Alzheimer's and speeds the progression of it in those who already have it. There's definitely an impact on the brain. I don't know if stevia affects insulin though... From what I've read, it does not, and in fact helps the body process sugars more effectively.
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Re: Wahls diet discussion

Postby lyndacarol » Sat Jan 21, 2012 1:35 pm

desmalia--
There appears to be frequent overlap between MS and Alzheimer's. The same drugs are often prescribed for Mild Cognitive Impairment in both.

Harvard researcher, Dennis J. Selkoe, as was reported in Newsweek years ago, suspects that insulin might be involved there, too. He thinks that Insulin Degrading Enzyme (IDE) breaks down beta-amyloid as well as insulin, but is preferentially drawn to insulin, thereby leaving the beta amyloid to accumulate in the brain of Alzheimer's patients (It is generally accepted as the source of the plaques in Alzheimer's!).

I know that researchers at the University of Chicago are working on the same enzyme.

Research on Alzheimer's is definitely something to watch and may be important to MS, too. I try to watch AD because my mother-in-law was affected by it.
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Re: Wahls diet discussion

Postby dkep11 » Sun Jan 22, 2012 6:18 am

@LindaCarol - I'll give it a shot,
I don't eat a lot of stevia anyway & the cookies are long gone 8).
I'll banish anything sweet and see what happens.
-Dave
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Re: Wahls diet discussion

Postby stillfighting » Sun Jan 22, 2012 2:12 pm

So not to sound jaded, I have just found and started looking into the Terry Wahls diet. The deeper I dig, the more I read. The more I suspect she has a book to sell.
As for Zack Wahl's I doubt his amazing upbring has a lot to do with 2 mother's as much as it has to do with at least one parent' I.E Terry having being very smart , as in dr. Then special picking her sperm donor.
Sorry to be so darn skeptical.. If she were a drug company, everyone would have the tar and feather's ready.
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Re: Wahls diet discussion

Postby desmalia » Sun Jan 22, 2012 7:18 pm

stillfighting wrote:So not to sound jaded, I have just found and started looking into the Terry Wahls diet. The deeper I dig, the more I read. The more I suspect she has a book to sell.
As for Zack Wahl's I doubt his amazing upbring has a lot to do with 2 mother's as much as it has to do with at least one parent' I.E Terry having being very smart , as in dr. Then special picking her sperm donor.
Sorry to be so darn skeptical.. If she were a drug company, everyone would have the tar and feather's ready.


It's definitely a business venture first and foremost, that's to be sure. Having subscribed to Dr. Wahls' page and friended her on FB I've seen her push her book up to maybe seven or eight times/day every day. She gives some good tips here and there, but it always comes back to "buy my book!". And it ain't cheap either. So I do agree it's important to take this whole thing with a grain of salt. I plan to keep eating this way, following tips and recipes as I find them online and seeing what works best for my body. I had actually been looking into switching to a hunter/gatherer diet for some time before seeing her TED talk. So discovering her intentions doesn't really change my direction any.

Wow, I didn't even know about Zack until you mentioned it. Quite the entrepreneurial family! :?
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Re: Wahls diet discussion

Postby desmalia » Sun Jan 22, 2012 7:20 pm

lyndacarol wrote:desmalia--
There appears to be frequent overlap between MS and Alzheimer's. The same drugs are often prescribed for Mild Cognitive Impairment in both.

Harvard researcher, Dennis J. Selkoe, as was reported in Newsweek years ago, suspects that insulin might be involved there, too. He thinks that Insulin Degrading Enzyme (IDE) breaks down beta-amyloid as well as insulin, but is preferentially drawn to insulin, thereby leaving the beta amyloid to accumulate in the brain of Alzheimer's patients (It is generally accepted as the source of the plaques in Alzheimer's!).

I know that researchers at the University of Chicago are working on the same enzyme.

Research on Alzheimer's is definitely something to watch and may be important to MS, too. I try to watch AD because my mother-in-law was affected by it.


I agree, the two seem to be very closely connected, so we've got to keep an eye on this. My friend's husband has Alzheimer's so I'm always on the lookout for anything that might be helpful for them too.
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Re: Wahls diet discussion

Postby stillfighting » Sun Jan 22, 2012 7:39 pm

I did notice in Zacks's video he say's he and his sister have the same father' by artificial insemination.
So I assume the Dr was picky when she picked the donor of this amazing man. I do mean this literally.
I am not picking on her or him at all. I figure this genetics play a large part in who he is.

I can't help but wonder with all her knowledge and money if she "cured" herself why more people are not seeing more results.
With even some modifications of diet?
I worry a little bit too if the DMD's are suppose to help about 30% where in the world would I be without them.
Does anyone know, I scream! Does anyone care! I scream! With frustration, that I might miss something.
The right food, the right vitamin.. the right med.
Every peddler out there looking to make a fast buck. Can't trust the DR. Can't trust the FDA! Does it ever stop?
Vent is over, this is just what they wanted.. pop in credit card........ they win.
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Re: Wahls diet discussion

Postby want2bike » Mon Jan 23, 2012 6:58 pm

Wahl's diet is basicly the Paleo diet. This is not just something Dr. Walh's invented. Others have seen success with the Paleo diet. You do not need to trust anyone but look at the results that others have seen. Wheither it is the Paleo diet or the Swank diet the results are clear. The only path to healing is through diet. Diet is what has made us sick and diet is the only way for our bodies to heal. Not only for MS but for many of the illnesses we are seeing today. Why aren't more people seeing good results? It is because they are not really following the diet. In today's world these diets are not easy to follow. It may take 3 or 5 years before you see anything but it is the only chance we have. Drugs are no good according to the studies done by the NHS in England. Hippocrates the father of western medicine said it long ago, "Let your food be your medicine and your medicine be your food". Nothing has changed. You can't trust the FDA and you can't trust the Dr. but you do not have to pay them anything. Just do the diet. Some people see results immediately and some it takes time. You didn't get sick in one day and you are not going to heal yourself in one day. You can get the information for free. Go to Dr. Swanks web site and his diet is posted there. Google paleo diet. Your health will be the result of the decisions you make. Get all the information and design the diet best for you.

http://www.franksherwood.com/tnms.htm

http://www.overcomingmultiplesclerosis. ... gram/Diet/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJyQTTZr ... _embedded#!

http://www.facebook.com/notes/ccsvi-in- ... 1295097210

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/artic ... nking.aspx
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Re: Wahls diet discussion

Postby dkep11 » Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:14 pm

I have tremendous respect for the work of Dr. Swank... for me the big difference is this: that Doctor Swank was able to show the following his plan on diet resulted in a lessening of disease progression. But the exciting thing about Dr. Wahls was that that she is not talking about lessening progression she is talking about actual improvement - within a year!! And for people significantly impacted by MS that is extremely tempting.
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Re: Wahls diet discussion

Postby want2bike » Tue Jan 24, 2012 7:51 am

Roger Macdougall did the same thing years earlier following a paleo diet. I do believe the paleo diet is best but harder to follow since it eliminates more possibilities of food to eat. My point is you do not have to pay for anything. It is all free on the web. You just need to search out the information and try different things until you find out what works for you. The cause of the illness we see today is due to diet. The China study shows this. Other things to be considered is amalgam(mercury) fillings, root canals, vaccinations and other heavy metals in our enviroment. The toxins in our enviroment can attack our nervous system. A healthy diet can help us deal with these toxins better.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3obChbjh ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trWTCEIP ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XU8nSn5E ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0WWXzJu ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgMuNCdP ... ure=relmfu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCBlxqmO ... re=related
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Re: Wahls diet discussion

Postby Trent » Tue Jan 24, 2012 9:07 am

Sorry, but what's the China study - apart from being one I've missed?
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Re: Wahls diet discussion

Postby want2bike » Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:54 am

The China study was a study done by Dr. Campbell showing how diseases we are seeing today are related to our diet. The first link in my pervious post gives details of the study. There are 14 parts to the link.
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