Wahls diet discussion

A board to discuss various diet-centered approaches to treating or controlling Multiple Sclerosis, e.g., the Swank Diet

Re: Wahls diet discussion

Postby savouryourlife » Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:09 pm

Excellent posting... Thanks for sharing
Keep us updated
Feb 18, 2010 Eco-Doppler Vaughan, MRV Frankfurt, left INT Jugular valve problem x2, RRMS since 1996, Angioplasty in Frankfurt March 10/10<div>Inclined bed therapy - 09/09/10</div>
User avatar
savouryourlife
Family Member
 
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2010 4:00 pm
Location: Vaughan, ON

Advertisement

Re: Wahls diet discussion

Postby dkep11 » Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:15 pm

The Continuing Adventures Of Dave The Intrepid Gastronaut; MS Diet 11 month update

MS has been hammering me since 1998 and nothing seems to slow it down. On 4/20/2011 I finally decided to go 100% on the Wahls diet. This is my 11-month report.

Dr Wahls' story is compelling. (see
www.terrywahls.org) In 2007 she wasn't too far physically from where I am today. She changed her diet and by 2008 she could walk and ride her bike! That will get the complete attention of someone like me!

(she did other things in addition to diet changes, like eletronic muscle stimulation, meditation - but she thinks diet played the primary role in her recovery)
(and she was never as bad as I am now)

My version of the Wahls diet:

Lots of veggies, esp. sulfur-rich and leafy greens and bright colors.

Small amount of fruit, some grain (but no gluten!)(I do quinoa and rice), small amounts of meat (chicken, turkey, or seafood)(I avoid beef and pork).

ZERO gluten, dairy, sugar, yeast, legumes, red meat, processed food. I think the first 2 on this list are the important ones, and #3 (sugar) isn't far behind.

Low starch; I do eat some grapes or blueberries or corn on occasion. But never a potato or potato chips.

On month 3 I began including a commercial daily green drink; we use Green Magma.

Wahls is sort of the Swank diet (the first recommended MS diet) of today, except I'd say it trades an emphasis on low-fat for an emphasis on veggies.

Wahls = Paleo-diet + anti-inflamatory diet + extra veggies.

I started on this 100% on 4/20/11... Before, I was 90% on the diet - it isn't far from how I ate normally... but if you walked in with a pizza before 4/20/11 and offered me a slice, I'd have one. Today - no thanks.

For me, the hardest things to totally give up were pizza, bacon, and cheese. Pretty much everything else was EZ; I don't have a sweet tooth. In the old days, I'd eat sweets occasionally but I never crave them.

My wonderful wife Janelle is on board with the diet (she ought to be; she found it and directed me to it!) and the food prep - out of necessity; I can't do it.

VVV new stuff VVV

* I said last month I'd quit the diet since I accidentally had been eating gluten-free bread while in hospice (and it contains a bit of yeast and sugar) on one hand, it's not that big of a deal, but on the other, both my wife and I were going for 100% dietary compliance for 1 year and now that's not happening.

Well, not exactly... we acknowleged the mistake and lightened up on the "no sugar" rule - not hugely, but there is a "nut and seed" bar that I like that has bit of sugar... I've had 2 or 3 this month.

* In month 6 of this diet, I was excited because I regained a little bit of functionality. Now, at month 11, I think I have peaked... the lst 2 months I have gone dowhill a bit - perhaps I'm looking too close.

* I just reread http://www.direct-ms.org/rogermcdougall.html - the story of Roger McDougall, a MSer 50 years ago who significantly improved the course of his disease via diet... his thinking and story sounds current today; indicative of a lack of real progress in treating MS over the last half-century 8/.

The buzz over a "current" hot topic in MS research, CCSVI, can be traced to a medical article that appeared in 1868 - no typo! Right after the Civil War!

Roger came to mind because I wanted to check how long after he altered his diet he noticed the beginnings of a change... over 4 years!

He was roughly where I am now physically and he died of old age, and he was basically MS-free at the time of death - and had been for decades.

It's a tough call, where do we go from here; I'll have to see what Janelle thinks. [I am not well enough to prepare my own food; Janelle does it for me, so make diet decisions together.]

Gastronaut Dave, over and out
User avatar
dkep11
Family Member
 
Posts: 46
Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2009 3:00 pm
Location: Greeley

Re: Wahls diet discussion/McDougall

Postby Trent » Tue Mar 20, 2012 4:14 pm

Like you I have to rely on my wonderful wife for my meals. I did.McDougalls gluten/dairy free. Diet for several years but saw no improvement so let it lapse till Wahls came along. This time, 3 months in I accidentally ate a small piece of grated cheese - half an inch by an eighth. It was stuck to a piece of tomato from my wife's plate, but I'd thought it wouldn't matter. How wrong I was! In half an hour if was getting random stabbing feelings, briefly, all over my body. The meal was at 5.30 and the stabbings went on until 12.30am. I am sure I have found a trigger. I have repeated this as a test now four times at various intervals. This dairy trigger has shown up after ingesting small amounts of cheese and most recently skimmed milk powder in a watercress sauce,again a small amount. My feeling about why this is happening now yet not before is that this time eating Wahls green veggies has perhaps begun a certain amount of healing that wasn't there before, enabling my body to show a reaction to the dairy element. This may be significant also because, coinciding with onset of earliest MS symptoms was when we started eating yoghurt regularly on almost every day as a dessert .
User avatar
Trent
Family Member
 
Posts: 92
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2009 4:00 pm
Location: E. Midlands, UK

Re: Wahls diet discussion

Postby jimmylegs » Tue Mar 20, 2012 8:26 pm

wondering if you have had a zinc level done, trent?

fyi re dairy as allergen..

New Optimum Nutrition for the Mind (book)
"The top ten allergies
Dairy produce causes allergic reactions in many people. This includes cheese and yogurt ... Dr. James Braly has found zinc deficiency to be extremely common among allergy sufferers.
Allergy or indigestion?
Digestive problems are often the underlying factor that leads someone to develop allergies... certain foods are inherently difficult to digest, the worst being gluten in wheat and casein in dairy products ... food sensitivity is a multi-factorial phenomenon possibly involving poor nutrition... removing the foods may help the sufferer recover, but other factors need to be dealt with..."

Web MD
"Moderate zinc deficiency is associated with disorders of the intestine which interfere with food absorption (malabsorption syndromes) ... and chronic debilitating diseases."
http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-supplemen ... tName=ZINC

i've written tons on here re zinc deficiency and leaky gut/intestinal impermeability, sensitivity to gluten, how gluten free diets allow zinc levels to rise, etc etc - just thought i'd add this bit to include the dairy factor.

if your serum zinc is above 18 umol/L and you still experience this food sensitivity, i would look at some other potential nutritional contributors to leaky gut. but zinc is the number one suspect afaic :)
READ ME key info on nutrient targets - www.thisisms.com/ftopict-2489.html
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
User avatar
jimmylegs
Volunteer Moderator
 
Posts: 9252
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2006 4:00 pm

Re: Wahls diet discussion

Postby Trent » Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:37 am

I think you may perhaps have missed my point here. I had been consuming normal amounts of dairy - yoghurt, cheese, cream etc in the past since dx 35 years ago- I'm 70y/o - with no noticeable problem.

McDougall's gluten /dairy free diet over 2-3 years produced neither benefit or problems, so I lapsed back to eating both gluten and dairy some five years since.

Now three months into the Wahls diet with large quantities of dark green leafy veg like kale, broccoli, brussels sprouts, cabbage, red salad leaves, spinach etc, all high in zinc, I find a reaction to a very small amount of different types of dairy, tested on at least four occasions, and beginning within 30 minutes and lasting for over 12 hours of jabbing pinpricks over much of my body.

Now, no-one knows my body better than I do. My conclusion is that, as predicted by Wahls, the increased intake of nutrients - possibly even some as yet unidentified - may have benefitted my body to be able to mount an observable trigger against the alien dairy, which up to now it has not been able to do. I intend to continue with the Wahls diet and will give progress reports as and when.
User avatar
Trent
Family Member
 
Posts: 92
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2009 4:00 pm
Location: E. Midlands, UK

Re: Wahls diet discussion

Postby jimmylegs » Wed Mar 21, 2012 4:14 am

interesting analysis. so no serum zinc level then? to me that's a key ingredient in the 'pudding' as it were. i'm pleased that in my case at least, allergic reactions have faded with nutritional optimization.
READ ME key info on nutrient targets - www.thisisms.com/ftopict-2489.html
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
User avatar
jimmylegs
Volunteer Moderator
 
Posts: 9252
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2006 4:00 pm

Re: Wahls diet discussion

Postby stillfighting » Thu Mar 22, 2012 9:51 am

It hasn't been proven that CCSVI works either.With that being said, why throw away vitamin K.
With or without CCSVI, why throw out nutrition.? NO matter what you believe, many who have had a successful surgery did not see lasting results.
User avatar
stillfighting
Family Elder
 
Posts: 133
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2010 3:00 pm

Re: Wahls diet discussion

Postby Thekla » Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:31 am

I have been easing into the Wahl's/paleo program since November. First increasing greens and colors, then dropping gluten and adding organ meats (January), dropping dairy(Feb) and then a few weeks ago dropping rice. But corn seems ok. I had a detox week when I was horribly weak and tired. I mostly slept. Now I feel much better. My muscles are stronger. I could stand much longer at church this week. I am not as wobbly standing. My legs are still not cooperating. My torso and upper body is definitely better/stronger. I think the bladder is improving but I want to give it more time to be sure. I just seem to be needing less bathroom stops. Only got up once last night and that was really more to stretch my legs.
User avatar
Thekla
Family Elder
 
Posts: 134
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 2010 3:00 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Wahls diet discussion

Postby Trent » Tue Mar 27, 2012 1:53 pm

That's very encouraging! Stick at it!
User avatar
Trent
Family Member
 
Posts: 92
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2009 4:00 pm
Location: E. Midlands, UK

Re: Wahls diet discussion

Postby DoubleD84 » Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:23 pm

I would just like to comment that in my first year of being diagnosed with MS I experienced an exacerbation every other week. I have gone from being cross-eyed, sick and unstable to perfectly normal. So anyone following these diets has an area of uncertainty to the actual effectiveness of it.

I know I come across as a troll, disbanding any hope to the follower's but I know first hand of the effects. I spent over a year in the grips of MS. I DO NOT want to lead astray anyone with progressive since I was never diagnosed but i still have the RRMS that I can't shake. Even after years of no activity.

One thing I can attest to is that diet/nutrition/exercise has done anything but minimize the effects I am dealing with. 'Personally' I think the raw food diet is nothing but beneficial but since I'm unaware of terry wahl's diet specifically (since it's clouded in commercialism) I can't comment.
User avatar
DoubleD84
Getting to Know You...
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 3:00 pm
Location: Colborne, Ontario

Re: Wahls diet discussion

Postby jimmylegs » Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:31 pm

i do know one person who has normalized a bunch of nutrients that are typically considered smoking gun wrt ms, and the numbers have come in from the lab to confirm, but this patient still feels like crap. unfortunately more testing doesn't appear to be an option in that case.

that said, i still think optimizing nutritional status, and knowing that you optimized it via lab tests, is an excellent foundation for overall health. the monitoring aspect is what i find is missing from most protocols and diets recommended for ms.

that said, without the lab, i have helped ppl in my network regain lost fertility, among many other things. with the lab, i've helped one person recover from chronic infectious mono of over 2yrs duration. and helped myself recover from the debilitating signs of ms. i can live with a little numbness in the hands and feet.

when i did the modified klenner, the feeling in my hands returned to the extent i have it now, in three days. there was no way i was going to stop in order to assess whether the protocol was responsible! when a pharmacist told me to take magnesium for my dysphagia (NOT due to ms, i just screwed up - it was early in my learning curve), it cleared up in 2 days. in that case, i did stop the magnesium to see if the problem came back. it did. for a long time i could literally feel a dose of magnesium hitting my throat. i could practically time when i would feel it after taking the pill. now my stores are better, and so much more than dysphagia has improved. very worthwhile.

the research is out there. imho, we should use the info to our advantage. i think we'd see a lot less ms, alzheimer's, autism, cancer, diabetes, heart disease, etc etc etc if we took it to heart :)
READ ME key info on nutrient targets - www.thisisms.com/ftopict-2489.html
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
User avatar
jimmylegs
Volunteer Moderator
 
Posts: 9252
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2006 4:00 pm

Re: Wahls diet discussion

Postby dkep11 » Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:44 pm

MS Diet 1 year update

MS has been hammering me since 1998 and nothing seems to slow it down. On 4/20/2011 I finally decided to go 100% on the Wahls diet.

This is my 1 year report.

Dr Wahls' story is compelling. (see
www.terrywahls.org) In 2007 she wasn't too far physically from where I am today. She changed her diet and by 2008 she could walk and ride her bike! That will get the complete attention of someone like me!

(she did other things in addition to diet changes, like eletronic muscle stimulation, meditation - but she thinks diet played the primary role in her recovery)

(and she was never as bad as I am now)

My version of the Wahls diet:

Lots of veggies, esp. sulfur-rich and leafy greens and bright colors.

Small amount of fruit, some grain (but no gluten!)(I do quinoa and rice), small amounts of meat (chicken, turkey, or seafood)(I avoid beef and pork).

ZERO gluten, dairy, sugar, yeast, legumes, red meat, processed food. I think the first 2 on this list are the important ones, and #3 (sugar) isn't far behind.

Low starch; I do eat some grapes or blueberries or corn on occasion. But never a potato or potato chips.

On month 3 I began including a commercial daily green drink; we use Green Magma.
Wahls is sort of the Swank diet (the first recommended MS diet) of today, except I'd say it trades an emphasis on low-fat for an emphasis on veggies.

Wahls = Paleo-diet + anti-inflamatory diet + extra veggies.

I started on this 100% on 4/20/11... Before, I was 90% on the diet - it isn't far from how I ate normally... but if you walked in with a pizza before 4/20/11 and offered me a slice, I'd have one. Today - no thanks.

For me, the hardest things to totally give up were pizza, bacon, and cheese. Pretty much everything else was EZ; I don't have a sweet tooth. In the old days, I'd eat sweets occasionally but I never crave them.

My wonderful wife Janelle is on board with the diet (she ought to be; she found it and directed me to it!) and the food prep - out of necessity; I can't do it.

VVV new stuff VVV

* No big news - I have declined a tiny bit, but I'm still a tiny bit better than when I started a year ago- overall it has been flat.

* But in a way, this is the big news, that for the first time in my MSlife I plateaued over the last year. I just thought it would be a slightly *higher* plateau! Maybe potential improvements take more time... realistically, they probably won't happen, but I'll keep trying.

* I have added small things back into my diet: Legumes and yeast. I eat only small anounts, and I pay attention to how my system feels all the way through & I'm fine with them. Except for chickpeas, I have always been sensitive to those, but I'll carefully try any other legume.

Yeast seems fine - the issue here is Candida, which we all have to some degree, but there are various online quizzes, like http://bodyecology.com/quiz.php , and I don't fit the profile... I've never been pregnant, I don't have premenstral bloating 8)... women are more likely to have a Candida issue, but men aren't immune. Anyway, I don't detect any reaction to yeast, so I'll allow it back into my diet.

I'll reduce the frequency of these reports from monthly to quarterly, unless I have Big News.

Gastronaut Dave, over and out
User avatar
dkep11
Family Member
 
Posts: 46
Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2009 3:00 pm
Location: Greeley

Re: Wahls diet discussion

Postby tedhutchinson » Mon Apr 23, 2012 4:25 am

dkep11 wrote:Wahls is sort of the Swank diet (the first recommended MS diet) of today, except I'd say it trades an emphasis on low-fat for an emphasis on veggies.

Image
Dr. Wahls on Oils and Fats

What she says about your brain requiring fat is fundamental to maintaining brain health the ability of the brain to repair itself.
Coconut oil is extremely important in this respect as it contain Medium Chain Triglycerides that the brain can use directly as fuel. Anyone with mild cognitive impairment, and ideally before cognitive impairment starts should be ensuring their brain has an alternative fuel supply as dysfunctional glucose metabolism is the basis of Dementia and we all wish to delay/prevent that if at all possible.
Coconut oil, like GREEN TEA, has antibiotic and anti fungal properties so using both daily should be part of a long term anti-candida strategy.
Grass fed butter (Anchor from New Zealand or local if you have a good source) should be fine also as that has some MCT content and will be anti inflammatory. Bear in mind the "Spreadable" form of Anchor Lurpak or whatever equivalents you find, will contain Soy, Sunflower, or other OMEGA 6 veg /seed oil and so be defeating the object of using a grass fed butter. Avoid Omega 6 oils at all costs most people need to REDUCE OMEGA 6 levels and build up their ability to resolve inflammation by increasing omega 3 intakes and levels.
tedhutchinson
Family Member
 
Posts: 38
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 1:34 pm

Re: Wahls diet discussion

Postby dc10 » Mon May 07, 2012 6:23 am

Hi,

For those that are on the Wahls diet, what supplements / vitamins do you take and how often, if any?

thanks
User avatar
dc10
Family Elder
 
Posts: 250
Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2010 3:00 pm

Re: Wahls diet discussion

Postby Pesho » Tue May 08, 2012 1:25 pm

I'm wondering just one thing. Are beans, rice and potatoes 100% forbidden? I can go on without dairy and processed food, just I know that beans are healthy food, rice, potatoes also. It is also a lot easier for me to eat those at lunch break. The only grass fed meat I can get my hands on is from lambs, but I don't really like it and it looks just fat. I'm trying to get on Wahls/Paleo diet for six months now, but with no luck :(. Was vegetarian for almost a month and I felt great, now I'm trying to be more paleo, just it is so hard to get those foods where I live and where I work.
Pesho
Family Member
 
Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:39 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Diet

 


  • Related topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users