Wahls diet discussion

A board to discuss various diet-centered approaches to treating or controlling Multiple Sclerosis, e.g., the Swank Diet

Re: Wahls diet discussion

Postby stillfighting » Sun May 20, 2012 9:10 pm

Sorry Trent, maybe for other's. The young one's coming along. They might still have some hope. I have had MS for over 20 sumin yrs.
could diet be more effective if caught early in the RR stage?
We won't know now, I guess we can only encourage those to FIGHT ON.. as we encourage..each other in all of our struggles.. to hang on.. WE are not alone here..
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Re: Wahls diet discussion

Postby Trent » Sun May 20, 2012 9:40 pm

Life is like a pubic hair on a toilet seat........



Sometimes you just get pissed off.
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Re: Wahls diet discussion

Postby stillfighting » Sun May 20, 2012 9:47 pm

Yes, that would be a good comparison.. Better to get pissed off than pissed on as they say.
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Re: Wahls diet discussion

Postby Trent » Sun May 20, 2012 11:42 pm

Agreed!
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Re: Wahls diet discussion

Postby jimmylegs » Mon May 21, 2012 5:31 am

hi trent have you had any nutritional bloodwork done? long term monitoring is key to any restoration project (that's my env science ed coming out).
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Re: Wahls diet discussion

Postby Pesho » Mon May 21, 2012 12:59 pm

jimmylegs wrote:pesho, you could do beef or lamb once or twice a week i should think. how often are you having fish?

To be honest, not as much fish as I would like. I really like fish and shellfish, just the last month or two I don't have more than once a week, and then it is tuna from can mainly. Two times a week red meat sounds OK, get 2-3 days without meat, one day chicken and the week is over :). I notice, that when I don't eat meat I'm better, my knees don't hurt. Just I don't know how long I can keep it this way, afraid not to make it worse at some point.
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Re: Wahls diet discussion

Postby jimmylegs » Mon May 21, 2012 4:28 pm

heya, if you can, try to avoid canned tuna (or for that matter, any species that tends to bioaccumulate mercury).

here's a list of good oily/fatty fish:
http://www.sacn.gov.uk/pdfs/fics_03_01_annex_01.pdf
Salmon, Trout, Mackerel, Herring, Sardines, Pilchards, Kipper, Eel, Whitebate, Tuna (Fresh only), Anchovies, Swordfish, Bloater, Cacha, Carp, Hilsa, Jack fish, Katla, Orange roughy, Pangas, Sprats
i haven't even heard of some of those species, and others listed here are endangered (example: bluefin tuna), but anyway there's somewhere to start, if it's feasible for you to eat better fish.

here's another list you can compare with the above. it is an american resource, but provides a list of best choices, and flags fish with concerns related to mercury.
http://www.montereybayaquarium.org/cr/c ... lGuide.pdf
Arctic Char (farmed), Barramundi (US farmed), Catfish (US farmed), Clams (farmed), Cobia (US farmed), Cod: Pacific (US non-trawled), Crab: Dungeness, Stone, Halibut: Pacific (US), Lobster: California Spiny (US), Mussels (farmed), Oysters (farmed), Sablefish/Black Cod (Alaska & Canada), Salmon (Alaska wild), Sardines: Pacific (US), Scallops (farmed), Shrimp: Pink (OR), Striped Bass (farmed & wild*), Tilapia (US farmed), Trout: Rainbow (US farmed), Tuna: Albacore (Canada & US Pacific, troll/pole), Tuna: Skipjack, Yellowfin (US troll/pole)

if you can manage to eat oily fish 1-2 times per week that could be good. if you were to eat 2 out of 3 meals a day using vegetarian protein sources, and 1 meal per day with meat/poultry/fish protein, do you think that your knees would be okay?
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Re: Wahls diet discussion

Postby NHE » Mon May 21, 2012 5:20 pm

jimmylegs wrote:heya, if you can, try to avoid canned tuna (or for that matter, any species that tends to bioaccumulate mercury).

here's a list of good oily/fatty fish:
http://www.sacn.gov.uk/pdfs/fics_03_01_annex_01.pdf
Salmon, Trout, Mackerel, Herring, Sardines, Pilchards, Kipper, Eel, Whitebate, Tuna (Fresh only), Anchovies, Swordfish, Bloater, Cacha, Carp, Hilsa, Jack fish, Katla, Orange roughy, Pangas, Sprats


Somehow I was under the impression that large, predatory fish such as swordfish should be avoided due to mercury. Is that not correct?


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Re: Wahls diet discussion

Postby jimmylegs » Mon May 21, 2012 6:11 pm

yeah i guess i shouldn't have said 'good' oily/fatty fish. the first source is just listing oily/fatty vs white fish species. the second link is about making responsible consumer choices and avoiding mercury. you'll notice swordfish is nowhere to be seen!

so for our purposes we want to focus on fish that we can find on both the lists.
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Re: Wahls diet discussion

Postby dc10 » Fri May 25, 2012 3:37 pm

i've been following the Wahls diet for one month now 100% to the book guidelines,
a few days before starting the diet i had 2 meals a day that were vegetables, to wean myself into the diet
- my symptoms are mobility and bladder EDSS = 6.5

from day 1 i have noticed a weakening of my legs and foot drop in both legs being more pronounced and heavy,
over the last month this has progressed a bit so a its now a bit more worse than the beginning days.

although, i have seen almost immediate improvements in energy levels, however energy has never really been a problem or ms symptom, im just now not being sleepy in the late evening, and much more wid awke when i wake in the morning, even if its 7am

yet my legs are weaker & dragging more, all day

also my bladder from day one of the diet has been much more frequent, only in the day though- before the diet i would pass urine every 2.5-3 hours now on the diet i pass urine every 90-30 mins.
Nocturnal enuresis was 5 times a week, BUT for the last 2 weeks its been 1 time per week


So as you can imagine im very confused

My legs are weaker & foot drop more, yet night times bladder almost back to normal, but the opposite in the day

i have started this week having bentonite clay foot baths for 30 minutes, every other day

I have not had any herxheimer teaction/symptoms - flu like symptoms, that i was expecting from the die off of toxins/candida


Any suggestions on whats happening to me?

Dr Wahls said you can have a temporary worsening of symptoms as toxins die-off, but wont last longer than a month,
but im having improvements in some ways , but some symptoms are worse, in particular my walking, foot drop ad legs strength
my walking its whats most important to me

thank you in advance
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Re: Wahls diet discussion

Postby stillfighting » Fri May 25, 2012 4:12 pm

I don't know if I buy this die off theory.. but I am open to it. I have come across something interesting.
For those wanting to detox.
www.aquadetoxusa.com
There is a lady here in town who has a machine, each treatment is 28.00. I have to admit I have not tried it. But she convinced me it worked. I checked into it and it is based on the rife machine.. you may find someone who has one in your area.
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Re: Wahls diet discussion

Postby lyndacarol » Fri May 25, 2012 4:39 pm

dc10 wrote:i've been following the Wahls diet for one month now 100% to the book guidelines,
a few days before starting the diet i had 2 meals a day that were vegetables, to wean myself into the diet
- my symptoms are mobility and bladder EDSS = 6.5

from day 1 i have noticed a weakening of my legs and foot drop in both legs being more pronounced and heavy,
over the last month this has progressed a bit so a its now a bit more worse than the beginning days.

although, i have seen almost immediate improvements in energy levels, however energy has never really been a problem or ms symptom, im just now not being sleepy in the late evening, and much more wid awke when i wake in the morning, even if its 7am

yet my legs are weaker & dragging more, all day

also my bladder from day one of the diet has been much more frequent, only in the day though- before the diet i would pass urine every 2.5-3 hours now on the diet i pass urine every 90-30 mins.
Nocturnal enuresis was 5 times a week, BUT for the last 2 weeks its been 1 time per week


So as you can imagine im very confused

My legs are weaker & foot drop more, yet night times bladder almost back to normal, but the opposite in the day

i have started this week having bentonite clay foot baths for 30 minutes, every other day

I have not had any herxheimer teaction/symptoms - flu like symptoms, that i was expecting from the die off of toxins/candida


Any suggestions on whats happening to me?

Dr Wahls said you can have a temporary worsening of symptoms as toxins die-off, but wont last longer than a month,
but im having improvements in some ways , but some symptoms are worse, in particular my walking, foot drop ad legs strength
my walking its whats most important to me

thank you in advance


Here is my guess: The bitter, dark green leafy vegetables in the diet are detoxifying your liver; you have reduced your visceral (internal) fat; you are producing fewer cytokines, but your pancreas lags behind and is still producing too much insulin which results in insulin resistance in your skeletal muscles. In time, I think the insulin in your muscles will be flushed out and if you are consuming enough fat, your muscle cells will begin to use ketones for fuel (energy).

Did your walking, foot drop, and leg strength symptoms appear before your bladder problems? Perhaps improvement will come in reverse order.
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Re: Wahls diet discussion

Postby Trent » Sat May 26, 2012 5:34 am

Lack of energy is one of my most serious problems, apart from.nil mobility. I' ve been on Wahl' s diet five months and have had no alteration of symptoms, good or bad, other than the discovery of milk as a trigger, causing whole-body sharp pinpricks within thirtyz minutes, lastIng for seven hours.
Any comments?
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Re: Wahls diet discussion

Postby stillfighting » Sat May 26, 2012 6:25 am

Trent, people who do not respond to the diet deserve to be heard. I think Wahls does a great miss justice to people. I don't think once the nerve axis has been cut. It can be repaired with diet alone, if at all.
I would assume at best her MS was still in the inflammatory stage? Assuming she is not another quack. Now don't jump at me. I did not say she was. I am just saying....... I have seen a lot of those come and go in my lifetime.
How many of you remember Elaine DeLack? She had the next best thing to a cure "at least for MS fatigue.. now POOF.
Well to hear her tell it big pharma wanted nothing to do with her.... I tried the patch.. it wasn't worth a dime for me. Not even if you gave it to me. So Yes, I do hear you Trent... it did not work... I have tried many things.. diet and so forth. I have not been faithful so I don't post or brag. But I can say.. I will never be without vitamin D. I will forver remain faithful to D. I will try lots of things to kick MS in the butt I remain sketical of diet.. I always hear a lot "I feel better". I want to hear what it did for the MS!
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Re: Wahls diet discussion

Postby dc10 » Sun May 27, 2012 3:44 am

Here is my guess: The bitter, dark green leafy vegetables in the diet are detoxifying your liver; you have reduced your visceral (internal) fat; you are producing fewer cytokines, but your pancreas lags behind and is still producing too much insulin which results in insulin resistance in your skeletal muscles. In time, I think the insulin in your muscles will be flushed out and if you are consuming enough fat, your muscle cells will begin to use ketones for fuel (energy).

Did your walking, foot drop, and leg strength symptoms appear before your bladder problems? Perhaps improvement will come in reverse order.



thank you lyndacarol for your hypothesis , that does sound a possible reason,

from day 1 of the 100% wahls diet, both my bladder and mobility have worsened,
its just over the last 2 weeks, my night times bladder when asleep, is almost normal!


How much longer is it sensible to continue on the wahls diet, if my MS symptoms are still worse than before starting the diet?
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