Wahls diet discussion

A board to discuss various diet-centered approaches to treating or controlling Multiple Sclerosis, e.g., the Swank Diet

Re: Wahls diet discussion

Postby dc10 » Thu May 31, 2012 2:57 pm

Stillfighting, all Jimmylegs is doing is sharing his/her extensive knowledge on the subject,
s/he has done nothing wrong! quite the opposite, many MS'ers find it difficult to absorb the medical literature and we have a very helpful forum member explaining it to us in layman terms

jinmylegs is not just spouting his/her opinion, s/he is backing up what s/he is saying with medical journals, so how can you criticize this? or even dispute
do you see any other users putting in this much time and effort solely to help others?
everything JL says is backed up with a link to a journal verifying the comments


Anyway, JL i called a few labs and most don't offer serum zinc, but plasma zinc, when questioned they claim is an effective alternative that many use

I will get a detailed diary with weights prepared

Your input on this site is invaluable :)
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Re: Wahls diet discussion

Postby stillfighting » Thu May 31, 2012 7:48 pm

I reserve the right to my opinion on your condition dc10. That being said, I respect your right to choose your treatment. My MS is stable after nearly 30 yrs. I am not on any ms meds at this time. I can was speed walking about 6 yrs ago. I am breaking my own personal records. I just don't buy the Wahls theory.

Do I try and eat as close to as I can Yes, why it just makes sense. Do I believe it will do what she says? Not really.
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Re: Wahls diet discussion

Postby jimmylegs » Thu May 31, 2012 8:29 pm

hey there dc, re the zinc test, that's cool - i've seen research suggesting plasma zinc and serum zinc tend to be pretty similar, so i wouldn't feel bad using your plasma zinc level and comparing it to research that looked at serum zinc.

i'll keep an eye out for your diary. and thank you :)
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Re: Wahls diet discussion

Postby NHE » Mon Jun 04, 2012 2:53 am

stillfighting wrote:I will play devils advocate here. Everyone knows an infection can play heck with MS. You have an infection. Do you really want to let this go untreated? Do you really believe your just "detoxing"
Please seek medical attention ASAP and get on an antibiotic. Do not let this go systemic, if it has not already. You say your MS is worse. Do you need anymore evidence.. ??



Infections are nothing to mess around with. I've tried naturopathic treatments for two different infections and both of them failed. The first infection was caused by a sloppy dermatologist who removed a suspicious mole from between two of my toes. I tried treating the infection with an extensive regimen of oregano oil. This helped for a few weeks. However, on stopping the oregano oil, the infection came back worse than before. I later learned that oregano oil is an antimicrobial agent and not an antibiotic. That is, it suppresses the growth of bacteria, but it does not kill them. This explains why the infection came back worse than before, the oregano oil suppressed the weak bacteria and shifted the population over to the more virulent ones. My second experience was with an infection caused by the loss of coordination in my hand when trimming my toenails. I had accidentally nicked the skin a bit. I initially tried using some Neosporin followed by a regimen of tea tree oil for about 10 days or so, but that just seemed to burn the skin and the infection remained, weakened, but still there. True antibiotics took care of both infections in the end.

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Re: Wahls diet discussion

Postby jimmylegs » Mon Jun 04, 2012 3:04 pm

this article found zinc was effective specifically against gram-positive bacteria:

Antibacterial Effect of Zinc Oxide in Vitro
http://informahealthcare.com/doi/abs/10 ... 9009041278

classification of gram positive bacteria:
Image
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Re: Wahls diet discussion

Postby jimmylegs » Mon Jun 04, 2012 3:09 pm

The effects of an occlusive zinc medicated dressing on the bacterial flora in excised wounds in the rat
http://www.springerlink.com/content/q279175w877171n7/
"The effects of three different dressings — two occlusive and one non-occlusive — on the bacterial flora of excised wounds in rats were studied. The number of colony forming units per gram of granulation tissue were significantly lower 4, 8 and 12 days postoperatively in wounds treated with a zinc medicated occlusive dressing compared with wounds treated with non-zinc medicated occlusive hydrocolloid dressing or wet-to-dry non-occlusive gauze dressing. The minimum inhibitory concentration (MIC) of zinc sulphate was determined on different strains of bacteria isolated from the wounds of rats and on strains isolated from humans. The most susceptible species isolated from both rat wounds and humans were Streptococcus sp., Staphylococcus aureus and Escherichia coli; whereas, Proteus and Enterococcus sp. had higher MIC-values. In vitro, the hydrocolloid dressing disclosed no antibacterial effects. If the practitioner prefers an occlusive dressing we believe, due to our animal and in vitro experiments, that the zinc medicated occlusive dressing will reduce the risk of wound infection in man."
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Re: Wahls diet discussion

Postby jimmylegs » Mon Jun 04, 2012 3:13 pm

any updates on your zinc testing adventure, dc? can you get it done this week?
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Re: Wahls diet discussion

Postby NHE » Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:24 pm

NHE wrote:True antibiotics took care of both infections in the end.


That isn't to say that I think that all antibiotics are wonderful. They're not. Some can have particularly bad side effects. I was prescribed bactrim for the infection caused by the sloppy dermatologist. Four days after finishing a 10 day course of bactrim I was in the ER with a kidney stone. It turns out that the doctor's prescribing information for bactrim states multiple times that it can cause crystalluria and that kidney function needs to be closely monitored while taking it. I had to bring the paper in to the doctor's office to get them to believe me. It seems that many people have problems with bactrim due to the sulfonamide. I read that its use is restricted in the UK and Europe. Here in the US, at least with my doctor's office, they prescribe it liberally. Oh, and applying anything topically at that point would have been an exercise in futility as the infection was no longer at the surface, but was inside my foot.

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Re: Wahls diet discussion

Postby dc10 » Tue Jun 05, 2012 4:18 pm

no JL, cant this soon im afraid but i will eventually

I appreciate with time on the Wahls diet, Candida yeast overgrowth (caused by the western diet) will be eradicated,

but i have fund a supplement in the house which natural enzymes that control candida albicans, they are vegetrian capsules too

see here:

http://www.mandimart.co.uk/candex-enzym ... -241-p.asp


Supplement Facts
Serving Size: 4 Capsules
Servings Per Container: 30
Ingredient Amount Per Serving %DV
Vegetarian Cellulase 128,000 CU *
Vegetarian Hemicellulase 80,000 HCU *
Vegetarian Amylase 8000 SKB *
Vegetarian Invertase 2000 SU *
Vegetarian Glucoamylase 400 AG *
* Daily Value not established
Other Ingredients
Maltodextrin, pullulan (vegetable capsule).


Does this supplement go against anything in the Wahls diet?

I was thinking it would speed up the detoxing/cleansing period without causing herxheimer reactions from the die-off

what do others think about taking Candex when on the Wahls diet

thanks
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Re: Wahls diet discussion

Postby dc10 » Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:52 am

heres a 3 day diet, but my food weighing scales weren't working, so can only give an approximation:

i started the wahls diet 6 and a half weeks ago

- I drink 1 litre of bottled Caledonian Still Natural Mineral Water throughout the day

The juice added to the smoothies is pure, no additives juice

I drink 2 smoothies a day because i am concerned with the tiny amount of calories consumed, but would happily avoid the second smoothie, if not necessary


Day 1

AT 8;45 DRANK SMOOTHIE = 1/4 MELON/KIWI/FROZEN BLUEBERRYS N STRWBERRYS, BLACK FOREST FRUIT, MANGO / CUP SPINACH/ SPOON NUTRITIONAL YEAST , 2 TSP FLAXSEED
OIL/MANGO PAPAYA JUICE

AT 12;45 ATE A FLAT MUSHROOM + A GREEN PEPPER + 2-3 CUPS OF KALE WITH NUTRITIONAL YEAST + TEASPOON OF EACH: PUMPKIN, SEASAME, HEMP, SUNFLOWER SEEDS + 1/2 GLOVE GARLIC + CHIVES + 1/2 GLASS BOYSENBERRY JUICE

AT 14;45 DRANK SMOOTHIE = 1/4 MELON/KIWI/FROZEN BLUEBERRYS N STRWBERRYS, BLACK FOREST FRUIT, MANGO / CUP SPINACH/ SPOON NUTRITIONAL YEAST , 2 TSP FLAXSEED
OIL/MANGO PAPAYA JUICE

AT 14;45 DRANK MUG OF GREEN TEA

AT 18;15 ATE SALMON FILLET + BIT OF YESTERDAYS FREE-RANGE CHIKEN + CUP OF CARROTS + CUP OF ASPARUGUS + CUP OF BROCOLLI + SEASAME SEEDS + NORI SEAWEED + GINGER/SPRING ONIONS/PEPPER/SEA SALT/GLUTEN FREE SOY SAUCE

Day 2

AT 9;40 DRANK SMOOTHIE = KIWI/ 1/4 CANTALOUPE MELON / SPINACH/FROZEN STRWBERRIES BLUEBERRIES, MANGO, BLACK FOREST FRUITS / RED GRAES / 2 TSP FLAXSEED OIL+
1 SPOON NUTRITIONAL YEAST + MANGO JUICE

AT 12;35 DRANK MUG OF GREEN TEA

AT 13;20 ATE TINNED LINE CAUGHT TUMA + COS LETTUCE + RADISH + BEETROOT + TOMATOS + CUCUMBER + RED GRAPES +TEASPOON OF EACH: PUMPKIN, SEASAME, HEMP, SUNFLOWER SEEDS + BASMATIC VINEGAR/SPRING ONIONS/SEA SALT , PEPPER FOR LUNCH

AT 15;30 DRANK SMOOTHIE = KIWI/ 1/4 CANTALOUPE MELON / SPINACH/FROZEN STRWBERRIES BLUEBERRIES, MANGO, BLACK FOREST FRUITS / RED GRAES / 2 TSP FLAXSEED OIL+
1 SPOON NUTRITIONAL YEAST + MANGO JUICE


AT 21;00 ATE FREE RANGE CHICKN DRUMSTICKS + 1 CUP BROCOLLI/CAULIFLOWER + 1 CUP OF RATATOUILLE MIXTURE = TINNED TOMATOS/GREEN PEPPERS/ONIONS/GARLIC/MUSHROOMS/SEA SALT,PEPPER +
BREWERS YEAST + PINEAPPLE/APPLE/LEMONGRASS JUICE

Day 3

AT 9;45 DRANK SMOOTHIE = KIWI/PEAR/SPINACH/FROZEN MANGO, BLUEBERRIES, BLACK FOREST / RED GRAPES / 2 TSP FLAXSEED OIL / DESERT SPOON NUTRITIONAL YEAST

AT 14;15 ATE A BIG BOWL OF OX TAIL BONE BROTH WITH BUTTERNUT SQUASH/CARROTS/PARSNIPS/TURNNIPS/SWEDE/ONION/CHIVES + YESTERDAY DAYS RATATOUILLE + 2 TSP BREWERS YEAST + SEA SALT/PEPPER + TEASPOON OF EACH: PUMPKIN, SEASAME, HEMP, SUNFLOWER SEEDS + ... FOR LUNCH

AT 16;25 DRANK SMOOTHIE = KIWI/PEAR/SPINACH/FROZEN MANGO, BLUEBERRIES, BLACK FOREST / RED GRAPES / 2 TSP FLAXSEED OIL / DESERT SPOON NUTRITIONAL YEAST

AT 20;15 ATE A TUNA STEAK WITH LEMON RIND & JUICE/THYME/DILL + PLATE OF KALE + A GREEN PEPPER ... FOR DINNER


I make sure i eat 3 cups of leafy greens, 3 of sulphur veg and 3 of colours every day

I eat chicken liver once a week, and a chicken or ox tail bone broth 3 times a week
I usually eat free rang chicken one day, then salmon or tuna steak the next day, then chicken again the next day, then salmon again the next day, etc

What are your opinions of my wahls diet?

Am i eating too much fruit? i know it contains fructose/natural sugars and im sure in big quantity are not good

I am quite concerned with my current weight, i have always been slim
i am male, 5' 10", before the diet i weighed 137 pounds,
i just weight myself and i'm 127 pound,
i don't get hungry, i am getting lots of nutrition from this diet, much more than a western diet would, eating 5 times as many calories
Last edited by dc10 on Fri Jun 08, 2012 11:39 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Wahls diet discussion

Postby stillfighting » Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:46 am

I am concerned about the bottled water. While I am in the minority. It is very bad for everyone.
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Re: Wahls diet discussion

Postby dc10 » Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:35 pm

stillfighting wrote:I am concerned about the bottled water. While I am in the minority. It is very bad for everyone.


Im not sure if it's the type of bottled water your thinking of.
it is:
Caledonian Still Natural Mineral Water

http://www.sainsburys.co.uk/groceries/i ... 9097484502

i thought this was a good form of water, even compared to filtered tap water?
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Re: Wahls diet discussion

Postby stillfighting » Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:44 pm

Sorry can't pull it up,if you say it's ok I say its ok too.
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Re: Wahls diet discussion

Postby stillfighting » Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:52 pm

I would agree, as long as it's not reverse osmosis water or distilled, it should be good for you.
As for your weight loss, I would find something high in good fats or good calories and just increase your intake.
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Re: Wahls diet discussion

Postby jimmylegs » Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:58 pm

heya dc, thanks for all that. i'll respond after some SLEEP just got back into town and i'm wiped out :S
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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