Wahls diet discussion

A board to discuss various diet-centered approaches to treating or controlling Multiple Sclerosis, e.g., the Swank Diet

food combining

Postby zinamaria » Fri Mar 11, 2011 5:25 pm

yeah, I got really turned onto food combining reading The Body Ecology Diet, by Donna Gates....that was about six years ago and when I started eating like that I could not believe how great I felt, lost weight too, which was not on my mind to do so, but it was more that food digested better without poor combining. And less bloat.
I used to eat rice pasta too, and finally just said forget it to that because of the bloat, so now if I eat grain, it's usually whole grain buckwheat, which is really delicious, just make it like rice, or quinoa, which is another favorite and high in protein and digests beautifully, especially if you soak the grains overnight.
How I love food!
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Dr. Wahl's paleo diet/grain free version

Postby Selmahope » Sat Mar 26, 2011 2:28 pm

Is anyone following Dr. Wahl's diet/grain free like she is doing? How do you stay satisfied food wise/keep from feeling hungry. I find I need protein or a grain to stay full/satisfied.

What do you eat for breakfast? It seems like smoothies are the only option ?

It is confusing to me how many of the MS healing stories/books are attributed to a high grain/vegan kind of diet (Who said so, Anna York's book, Jelinek, etc)--and the palo diet in many ways is opposite of that.Then their is the china study book which is quite convincing/also recommending a vegan diet.

I don't have an MS diagnosis. I fall in the no diagnosis category according to neuro's. Lyme disease according to lyme doctors. Progressive MS symptoms- optic neuritis, eye pressure, muscle weakness, numbness , sensory , coordination, balanceetc.). 13 years ago when my problems began with a diagnosis of fibromyalgia, I notices I could cut my muscle pain in half following the blood type O diet (hunter gather-very limited grains). Eventually I got the pain under control through diet and exercise and a supplement/moducare sterinol and then started eating more grains and sugar, alchol etc. again(although all organic and spelt in stead of wheat--and the neuro problems set in 7 years later). I got very thin/too thin on the blood type diet with few to no grains. And I ate eggs at that time.

Some of the lyme doctors recommend no grains/palo type diet .

I'm very thin and don't need to lose weight. Right now I"m following her (dr. wahl's)diet but still eating a serving or 2 of gluten free whole grains a day and more protein than the 2-4 ounces/day she eats.

I'm wondering what other's experiences are with maintaining weight and keeping sat fat low on grain free diet and feeling satisfed.

I was foodee and loved to cook/so this is not fun for me --food was one of my great passions in life, but I am pretty disciplined and do whatever it takes to reverse illness. I wish I had greater confidence in what the right diet actually was. Even more confusing when you don't have a diagnosis.
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Question about Terry Wahls

Postby KateCW » Sat Mar 26, 2011 2:51 pm

Does anyone know if ANYBODY else has ever had the same type of success as Terry Wahls? I just can't help but feel that if others are following her protocol SOMEBODY should have similar results. It is a pretty arduous program.
Kathy, 49 with PPMS,full time scooter.
Married to a wonderful man, mother to a darling 9 yr old boy
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Postby jimmylegs » Sat Mar 26, 2011 3:56 pm

i do my own thing with diet and supplements and have had great success overall. makes sense for me because i was severely misnourished prior to dx.

i don't do the best bet aspects re removing certain foods because i removed so many foods prior, and that's how i got sick in the first place. my approach is more about balance and healing. i don't do the electrical stimulation stuff a la wahls

let's see, dinner tonight was a bowl of homemade vegetarian chili with verboten beans and corn for complete protein, lots of other veggies, and 5 tidbits of leftover steak. that meal by itself is a mildly inflammatory combination.

but i also ate about a cup of sweet potato and a cup of kale over the course of the day today, both of which are strongly anti-inflammatory blow any slightly inflammatory tendencies of the chili right out of the water.

sweet potato and kale are in line with the wahls protocol by and large, i think. perhaps with the exception of the restriction where brightly coloured veg don't count if they are root vegetables, think i saw something like that somewhere.

i think you can make ms diets work without going ape on the never-ever stuff. 'hardly ever' restrictions? yes, for sure.

here's a list of stuff i rarely if ever have:
candy, chocolate, ice cream, store-bought cakes cookies or other baked goods (except something like sprouted whole grain bread), juice, canned goods, processed foods such as frozen dinners, pre-seasoned meat or fish, commercial salad dressing, margarine, kraft-style peanut butter (the kind with hydrolized oils and added sugar etc) you get the idea. the kind of things you would be less likely to find at a farmer's market.

i could work my way down to what i always have but it's pretty basic. whole foods, such as you probably could find at a farmer's market, adequate hydration, more anti-inflammatory foods than not, and enough supplements to make my bloodwork look like that of a healthy person. when i do it right, i feel pretty great.

that's not to say it is the same for everyone, though.

i think even my approach would sound like pretty hard work to some people, so i guess everything is a matter of degree.

at the end of the day, to each their own!

hope that helps :)
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Postby jimmylegs » Sat Mar 26, 2011 3:58 pm

ps i never entirely lost the ability to walk i just staggered around really funny and couldn't do stairs for i guess half a year or so. since that time i went back to instructing skiing and achieved a higher certification level. i also set a goal to swim a kilometer which is not huge but it was for me since i hadn't done it prior to dx. all that said i'm only 5 years and a bit in so time will tell.
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Postby jimmylegs » Sat Mar 26, 2011 4:04 pm

i was vegan for 15 years prior to my ms dx. so i am extremely skeptical of ms treatments that approach veganism.
i eat 'ms no-no's all the time. just not processed additive-laden crap!
i just wrote a big blurb about this under general discussion. you might want to have a peek.
HTH!
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Re: Question about Terry Wahls

Postby scorpion » Sat Mar 26, 2011 5:49 pm

KateCW wrote:Does anyone know if ANYBODY else has ever had the same type of success as Terry Wahls? I just can't help but feel that if others are following her protocol SOMEBODY should have similar results. It is a pretty arduous program.


My guess is that Terry Wahls either did not have MS or what she experienced was(more then likely) the natural progression(or in her case regression) of her MS symptoms. Unfortunately, but fortunately for the person, these outliers occur and they immediately want people to believe they have some secret to stopping their MS. I am sure, since my MS has not really progressed since my diagnosis, that it must be due to my increase in the consumption of adult beverages. You get my point?
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Postby jimmylegs » Sat Mar 26, 2011 6:22 pm

s, how long since dx?
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Postby lovebug » Sat Mar 26, 2011 7:46 pm

Wow I am impressed `Jimmylegs` that you have done so well after being diagnosed with MS! Your own diet is a real credit to yourself! Thanks for always sharing your knowledge with us. You are a real asset to TIMS. Keep up the fine work.
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get diagnosis

Postby hwebb » Sat Mar 26, 2011 9:27 pm

isn't there a test for lyme disease, and a course of anti-biotics? If you've tried all this - maybe see if you have CCSVI ? Some people have that without any lesions on their spine/brain (though have all the MS-like symptoms)
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Postby scorpion » Sun Mar 27, 2011 6:04 am

jimmylegs wrote:s, how long since dx?


Hey JL. Were you asking me how long since dx? I saw the s and was not sure!
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Postby Loobie » Sun Mar 27, 2011 7:21 am

I, too, am of the opinion that her astounding results have a lot to do with timing. However, saying that doesn't make me a non believer in what she puts out there. I think, for her anyway, her NO was so disrupted by her diet (from allergies or hyper sensitivity or something) that her results were astounding, thus the Up From the Chair title of her work. Proper nutrition is so important but if you are a person of 'normal' means with a 'normal' amount of time on your hands, it's damn near impossible to live it out like she did. However, it can be done and I've always heard great results from people who can do the Best Bet or Swank all the way. I just don't think too many people will have the results she has.

I've personally done it for a while (3 1/2 months) and I felt very much better, but did not get relief from MS stuff. However, I did get to 'feeling better' in a general sense. But now I just eat sensibly and eat natural. I can't stay away from everything but what's on the list. I just don't have that type of life (kids, busy wife, can't cook well!) that can sustain her level of dieting very well. Plus I just love food too much and it's a quality of life thing with me. On the other hand, when I have eaten like crap (little debbies out the ying yang and fast food all the time) I feel AWFUL and my MS stuff seems to flare easier that's for sure.

It all ties in but I believe we are just like healthy controls in that it does not cure your MS, but takes a ginormous variable off the table to be messed with. Just like if we were all fully healthy, there are some who would achieve life altering results from eating better, while the rest of us schleps do much better eating right, I don't think the Best bet or swank to the hilt is the answer. Just do like the nutritionists say and cling to the outer walls of your grocery store. Lean protein, lots of fish and massive amounts of fresh fruit and veg. And of course balanced levels of all your supps!

Other than smoking or drinking to excess, there is nothing that can alter how you feel and how susceptible you are to all sorts of crap than diet.
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Postby jimmylegs » Sun Mar 27, 2011 7:22 am

thx lovebug :)

yes scorpion, i was curious. next question is what exactly does increased adult beverages mean!
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Postby maynaka » Sun Mar 27, 2011 8:08 am

Kathy,

I've been following her program for a month now.

I can't do nine cups of kale a day! But we actually bought a heavy duty blender and usually have a smoothie every day with some fruits and veggies. For dinner, chicken or fish with sauteed or roasted veggies (things like turnips, squash, etc.)

We also vary the diet with things like turkey chili, bbq ribs with homemade sauce (the store bought kind is really high in sugar), etc. I also am a foodie and live in the suburbs of Chicago (double whammie) so I do enjoy the occasional pizza, burrito, beef sandwich, etc. I just don't do it as often.

Wahl's book "Minding your Mitchondria" delves into the food/body relationship which does make a lot of sense.

We did purchase an electrical stim machine and it has helped me regain some muscle tone in my legs. My husband used to be Physical Therapist so his knowledge on where to place the pads, etc. are crucial.

Vitamin wise I take b, coq-10, d, fish oil, calcium/magnesium and a good general for all the others.

As far as improvements over the last month...as observed by my husband since he helps me a lot...in the last week I've been able to lift myself from a chair with almost no help, my steps are more stable and I'm able to stand straighter when a walk.

I do a lot of chair exercises everyday for my back, legs, etc.)

I've pretty much tried everything out there and nothing has slowed down this disease for me so I plan on sticking with this for awhile. I have a long way to go to get to normal again so it will take some time.

On a side note, my husband said he's feeling a lot better and could now read the scroll on the bottom of the screen without his glasses.

On the thought that her results were so amazing...in one of her interviews she mentions that she was ready to prepare her house so she could use her scooter inside which means she was still able to get around somewhat. I don't think healthy eating can hurt, but I agree with Jimmylegs about a well balanced diet.

Hope this helps to answer your question.
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Postby scorpion » Sun Mar 27, 2011 8:38 am

jimmylegs wrote:thx lovebug :)

yes scorpion, i was curious. next question is what exactly does increased adult beverages mean!


It has been almost 4 years since my diagnosis JL and I have good days and some not so good days but generally my MS has been stable. Surprisingly to some, who believe me to be the spokesperson for CRABS(lol), I chose not to take any medication when I was diagnosed and I still am MS med. free. I am not sure if I am just afraid of the meds. or if by not taking the meds. I can kind of remain in a "state of denial" that my MS will not get worse but so far LUCK has been on my side. As for the adult beverages I am OF COURSE referring to lattes, cappuccinos, and the occasional Grey Earl Tea. :wink:
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