Wahls diet discussion

A board to discuss various diet-centered approaches to treating or controlling Multiple Sclerosis, e.g., the Swank Diet

Re: Wahls diet discussion

Postby jimmylegs » Wed Jul 18, 2012 4:51 am

i would have to read in more detail how they assessed the pesticide levels and if the vegetables were washed before testing. i'll keep an eye out for a study.
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Re: Wahls diet discussion

Postby NHE » Wed Jul 18, 2012 5:11 am

jimmylegs wrote:i would have to read in more detail how they assessed the pesticide levels and if the vegetables were washed before testing. i'll keep an eye out for a study.


EWG's FAQ wrote:What if I wash and peel my fruits and vegetables?

The data used to create the Shopper’s Guide™ are from produce tested as it is typically eaten. This means washed and, when applicable, peeled. For example, bananas are peeled before testing, and blueberries and peaches are washed. Because all produce has been thoroughly cleaned before analysis, washing a fruit or vegetable would not change its rank in the EWG's Shopper’s Guide™ . Remember, if you don’t wash conventional produce, the risk of ingesting pesticides is even greater than reflected by USDA test data.

EWG has not evaluated various produce washes for efficacy or potentially toxicity. However, since some plants absorbed pesticides systemically, a produce wash would have limited effect. The safest choice is to use the Shopper’s Guide™ to avoid conventional versions of those fruits and vegetables with the highest pesticide residues.
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Re: Wahls diet discussion

Postby jimmylegs » Wed Jul 18, 2012 5:25 am

thanks for taking the time, NHE. it's intuitive that plants would absorb pesticides systemically.. when i go looking i'll be hoping for a study on relative uptake among various crops.

on a side note i've been researching the potential for health impacts by thermal receipt paper (bisphenol-A) :S eek!
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Re: Wahls diet discussion

Postby dkep11 » Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:47 pm

MS Diet 15 months update

MS has been hammering me since 1998 and nothing seems to slow it down. On 4/20/2011 I finally decided to go 100% on the Wahls diet. This is my 15th month report.

Dr Wahls' story is compelling. (see
www.terrywahls.org) In 2007 she wasn't too far physically from where I am today. She changed her diet and by 2008 she could walk and ride her bike! That will get the complete attention of someone like me!
(she did other things in addition to diet changes, like eletronic muscle stimulation, meditation - but she thinks diet played the primary role in her recovery)

(and she was never as bad as I am now)

My version of the Wahls diet:

Lots of veggies, esp. sulfur-rich and leafy greens and bright colors.

Small amount of fruit, some grain (but no gluten!)(I do quinoa and rice), small amounts of meat (chicken, turkey, or seafood)(I avoid beef and pork).

ZERO gluten, dairy, sugar, yeast, legumes, red meat, processed food. I think the first 2 on this list are the important ones, and #3 (sugar) isn't far behind.

Low starch; I do eat some grapes or blueberries on occasion. But never a potato or potato chips.

On month 3 I began including a commercial daily green drink; we use Green Magma.

Wahls is sort of the Swank diet (the first recommended MS diet) of today, except I'd say it trades an emphasis on low-fat for an emphasis on veggies.

Wahls = Paleo-diet + anti-inflamatory diet + extra veggies.

I started on this 100% on 4/20/11... Before, I was 90% on the diet - it isn't far from how I ate normally... but if you walked in with a pizza before 4/20/11 and offered me a slice, I'd have one. Today - no thanks.

For me, the hardest things to totally give up were pizza, bacon, and cheese. Pretty much everything else was EZ; I don't have a sweet tooth. In the old days, I'd eat sweets occasionally but I never crave them.

My wonderful wife Janelle is on board with the diet (she ought to be; she found it and directed me to it!) and the food prep - out of necessity; I can't do it.

I have recently allowed legumes back into my diet after watching carefully and noticing no affect. I will continue to avoid garbanzo beans, as I think I am sensitive to them.

I have also recently started adding a teaspoon of honey to my daily tea.

VVV new stuff VVV

* I'm continuing on the diet, as described above, but my motivation to keep doing it is decreasing.

* On month six of this diet, I was so excited because I had recovered a little bit of functionality and it raised the question of how much more I could recover... Now, at month 15, I have definitely slid back. I am nowhere near where I was at month six.

* I am considering trying the AIP protocol for three months, just to change things up. http://www.nutrisclerosis.com/Blogs/Ent ... paleo.aspx

* I have, in the last month, tried a gluten-free pizza with "daiya" cheese. I was impressed with how good it was!

* I now know of three people in my physical situation, edss 8 or more, who have passed away, all men, between the ages of 49 (my age) and 56. It moves my possible death from an abstract future possibility to a tangible present reality

* Thank you to Katie for typing!

I have reduced the frequency of these reports from monthly to quarterly, unless I have Big News.

Gastronaut Dave, over and out
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Re: Wahls diet discussion

Postby Liberation » Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:18 pm

dkep11 wrote:MS Diet 15 months update

MS has been hammering me since 1998 and nothing seems to slow it down. On 4/20/2011 I finally decided to go 100% on the Wahls diet. This is my 15th month report.

Dr Wahls' story is compelling. (see
http://www.terrywahls.org) In 2007 she wasn't too far physically from where I am today. She changed her diet and by 2008 she could walk and ride her bike! That will get the complete attention of someone like me!
(she did other things in addition to diet changes, like eletronic muscle stimulation, meditation - but she thinks diet played the primary role in her recovery)

(and she was never as bad as I am now)

My version of the Wahls diet:

Lots of veggies, esp. sulfur-rich and leafy greens and bright colors.

Small amount of fruit, some grain (but no gluten!)(I do quinoa and rice), small amounts of meat (chicken, turkey, or seafood)(I avoid beef and pork).

ZERO gluten, dairy, sugar, yeast, legumes, red meat, processed food. I think the first 2 on this list are the important ones, and #3 (sugar) isn't far behind.

Low starch; I do eat some grapes or blueberries on occasion. But never a potato or potato chips.

On month 3 I began including a commercial daily green drink; we use Green Magma.

Wahls is sort of the Swank diet (the first recommended MS diet) of today, except I'd say it trades an emphasis on low-fat for an emphasis on veggies.

Wahls = Paleo-diet + anti-inflamatory diet + extra veggies.

I started on this 100% on 4/20/11... Before, I was 90% on the diet - it isn't far from how I ate normally... but if you walked in with a pizza before 4/20/11 and offered me a slice, I'd have one. Today - no thanks.

For me, the hardest things to totally give up were pizza, bacon, and cheese. Pretty much everything else was EZ; I don't have a sweet tooth. In the old days, I'd eat sweets occasionally but I never crave them.

My wonderful wife Janelle is on board with the diet (she ought to be; she found it and directed me to it!) and the food prep - out of necessity; I can't do it.

I have recently allowed legumes back into my diet after watching carefully and noticing no affect. I will continue to avoid garbanzo beans, as I think I am sensitive to them.

I have also recently started adding a teaspoon of honey to my daily tea.

VVV new stuff VVV

* I'm continuing on the diet, as described above, but my motivation to keep doing it is decreasing.

* On month six of this diet, I was so excited because I had recovered a little bit of functionality and it raised the question of how much more I could recover... Now, at month 15, I have definitely slid back. I am nowhere near where I was at month six.

* I am considering trying the AIP protocol for three months, just to change things up. http://www.nutrisclerosis.com/Blogs/Ent ... paleo.aspx

* I have, in the last month, tried a gluten-free pizza with "daiya" cheese. I was impressed with how good it was!

* I now know of three people in my physical situation, edss 8 or more, who have passed away, all men, between the ages of 49 (my age) and 56. It moves my possible death from an abstract future possibility to a tangible present reality

* Thank you to Katie for typing!

I have reduced the frequency of these reports from monthly to quarterly, unless I have Big News.

Gastronaut Dave, over and out


Hi Dave,
are you taking the supplements that Wahls takes, like NAC, lithium, Q10, ALA, etc. ? Are you using EMS? Are you eating everything organic? Kale, spinach, etc. should be very important in Wahls diet. Do you know how others are doing with Wahls diet? As far as I know dr Wahls wanted a trial with other MS patients.
I hope you will return to getting better.
Be well,
Lib
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Re: Wahls diet discussion

Postby dkep11 » Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:15 pm

re supplements, i don't do lithium, but i'm pretty good with the rest. i do EMS, oncc a week. many, but not all, of the veggies are organic. i'm not part of a trial...

still hoping for results!
-d
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Re: Wahls diet discussion

Postby jimmylegs » Sun Jul 22, 2012 5:04 am

heya! quick question: had any bloodwork done?
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Re: Wahls diet discussion

Postby dkep11 » Sun Jul 22, 2012 6:48 am

just standard-screeningw blood work...
my total non-fasting cholesterol = 100
My iron had been a bit high in a prv . test, now it is ok. I remember the #, 77, but I forget the units!
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Re: Wahls diet discussion

Postby jimmylegs » Sun Jul 22, 2012 9:11 am

i'd be interested to see the results if you could get some of the key suspect nutrients for ms tested.. eg d3, mag, calcium and zinc. your iron result, was that serum ferritin or some other measure? for serum ferritin i like to be just over 100, per these ranges:
post191906.html?#p191906
although i'm not sure what the research consensus is re levels and overload, i'd be worried about elevated ferritin a lot lower than 300. i've seen research that suggested my latest ferritin levels were a bit high for my liking, still below 150 i think, but at a level that's higher risk for some illness or other. i'd have to go review and refresh my memory for any more detail.
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Re: Wahls diet discussion

Postby dkep11 » Sun Jul 22, 2012 9:42 am

I'll post specific blood #s if/when I get them done... I looked at your link and my iron of 77 fits nicely on the serum ferretin scale.
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Re: Wahls diet discussion

Postby jimmylegs » Sun Jul 22, 2012 2:21 pm

if it's ferritin that is.. there is a test for iron too.

i think it'll be really interesting to see some levels, see how the diet is affecting those 'usual suspects'.
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Re: Wahls diet discussion

Postby dc10 » Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:24 am

Hi Dave,

After reading your post, i was wondering how you decided on the following
i appreciate this is your interpretation, but would be good if you could explain your rationale please

Small amount of fruit - where did Dr Wahls say this?

small amounts of meat (chicken, turkey, or seafood)(I avoid beef and pork).
- again, where/when did dr wahls say to consume small amounts of meat?
i can't seem to find any quotes of her saying to avoid red meat? - i eat free range red meat occasionally

Low starch; I do eat some grapes or blueberries on occasion

Are berries classed as starchy? As dr Wahls always says 'Berries' in her list of foods to eat?


I read her book, but maybe i've missed something?

I hope you can regain your previous gains, maybe you could be sufferring from a different underlying condition?
I myself started to feel worse (mobility/bladder) and it was only recently that i discovered i had an infected pressure ulcer, which i assume is the reason for my 'transient' deterioration
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Re: Wahls diet discussion

Postby agatha » Mon Aug 27, 2012 3:02 pm

Hello there
I've been doing a paleo diet which I now realise is very similar to Terry Wahls' suggestions for about 18 months. Prior to this I did the Wheldon antibiotic protocol and this was very helpful in stopping my MS progression but I have noticed further increases in energy and general health since eating paleo. I base my diet around meat, fish, eggs, organ meat, shellfish, veggies, fruits, coconut, butter, dark chocolate, nuts, olive oil, herbs and spices. No grains, milk, cheese, legumes, sugar, processed food. My diet is around 60% fat by calories. My recent lipid profile was very good and my BP is great. I previously tried the Swank diet but this made my illness much more aggressive - I think I ended up with deficiencies of fat soluble nutrients. The high levels of fat in my paleo diet have led only to beneficial changes for me.

Since starting the diet my energy is much improved, my heat tolerance is much better, I am no longer cold all the time, my skin is less dry, brain fog has gone, I don't need my reading glasses any more (for presbyopia), I have lost weight, my complexion is a healthier pink colour instead of greyish yellow, better infection control, chronic bladder infection is almost healed, nails are stronger, exercise tolerance is better. Hooray for real food!

Reading the forums it looks like different ones do well on different dietary protocols - I guess we all need to experiement until we find what suits.

Hope this encourages some of you.
best wishes
Agatha
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Re: Wahls diet discussion

Postby CaveMan » Tue Sep 04, 2012 6:29 am

Agatha,
There is a Paleo Diet section here as well, I just posted a link to a discussion of Paleo diet & MS by Loren Cordain which you might find interesting.
I am just an interested individual trying to crack the autoimmune nut.
Partner has Graves Disease, 5 years, showing good test results, looking forward to potential remission in the near future.
3 friends have MS, 1 just recently diagnosed, severity 7/10.
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Re: Wahls diet discussion

Postby dc10 » Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:43 pm

hi Dave,
How are you doing?
Its been five months since your last update and was wondering if your still on the wahls diet and how your MS symptoms are?
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