am i asking in the right post?

A board to discuss various diet-centered approaches to treating or controlling Multiple Sclerosis, e.g., the Swank Diet

am i asking in the right post?

Postby MScrusade » Fri May 25, 2012 10:45 pm

I'm not sure if i should be posting here, so would be grateful if a forum mod could move if it doesn't belong here.

Basically what im asking if anyone knows what foods i should be more focused on when suffering with ms and what foods i shouldn't touch, aswell as some suplements i should be using and not be using. just now im only taking vit D ( not really needed with this weather!) but i've been recently informed of Malic acid, whats your views and where should i begin?
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Re: am i asking in the right post?

Postby jimmylegs » Sat May 26, 2012 4:18 am

hi msc, there's really a lot to it - assessment is an important step. you can figure out where you're going once you know where you are.

there are known nutritional issues in people with ms. these can result from poor dietary intakes, or dietary combinations that interfere with absorption, or GI issues that interfere with absorption, or a combination of all those together, just for starters.

b-complex, vit c, e8-complex, vit d3, magnesium, selenium, zinc, and omega 3 fatty acids status are all of concern in ms and a wide variety of other developed-nation chronic illnesses.

a good set of initial nutrient tests for ms patients would include serum magnesium, zinc, 25(OH)vitamin d3, and vit b12. if you can get those done, i can help you with interpreting results. (note: sometimes red blood cell 'RBC' testing is considered better, but it's often easier to compare serum values with the published literature that's out there.

zinc is a really important one. i've measured in the lab the drastic effects that improved zinc status can have on vitamin d3 absorption, among other very important things.

also, ms is known as a disease of chronic inflammation. when docs analyze ms patients' spinal fluid for 'diagnostic' purposes, they are looking for oligoclonal bands, which are markers of long term inflammation. you might like to have a read about inflammation factor ratings for food. you can get the info on rankings for various foods of various serving sizes at www.nutritiondata.com. you want your overal to be at least 200 per day, on the anti-inflammatory side.

another good resource is www.whfoods.com. take any nutrient, look at the healthy source list on this web site, and see if your typical diet is rich in these foods:
example: vitamin A
http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tnam ... t&dbid=106
http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tnam ... oodsources
note that the list is heavy on dark leafy greens, with a nod to sweet potato and squash.

thiamin - vitamin B1
http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tnam ... t&dbid=100
http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tnam ... oodsources
note that greens are still all over the top of the food source chart, with tuna and sunflower seeds making an appearance. personally i wouldn't eat tuna that often, due to bioaccumulation of toxic heavy metals from eating other fish. i eat tuna a few times a year tops. when i do have it, it's usually from a can, which is even worse. so i try to avoid it most of the time.

anyway it goes on like that. if you were to send me a list of what you ate and drank over three days (2 work days and one day off) i could help you get a rough sense of where your problem areas lie. pm is an option, if you'd like.

have fun with the homework :) if you're the right kind of person it can be really interesting!
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Re: am i asking in the right post?

Postby MScrusade » Sat May 26, 2012 3:06 pm

i'll make a note of what im eating the next three days :) i can find most of these supliments from my local health stores, as for the test im sure i can ask my GP to issue me with that thats a lot of information to take in jimmy thanks for the information! I'll deffinetaly be following that.
so from what i've gathered a lot of anti-inflamitary foods will help, will have a look into that website. as for the lumber punctures - my doctors took 3 atempts and got no fluids, was in so much pain with it i had to ask them to stop, i thought it was to find if i was pvj virus positive ( i think i keep getting the virus name wrong) whihch they eventualy done through a specialist blood test.

i like leafy vegitables and potatoes, never had squash, something to try. BUT why would i eat something that contanis vit A if it helps my immune system, isn't it the oposite im looking to do? I mean correct me if im wrong but im 100% sure that the treatment im on (tysabari, or natalizumab) stunts t he production of white blood cells and weakens my immune system for the exact purpose of the fact that my immune system is trying to destroy my myline sheeth, so wouldnt eating foods high in Vit A be conterary to the medication that im recieving?

I'll definetly be introducing much more in the way of pulses in my diet since i do have a tremendous amount of nerve pain on a daily basis, and muscle pain when under stress, so suppliments of vit b1 with a mixture of pulses and beans will help but taking into accont what you've said regarding tuna, i'll steer clear, i also am not a huge fan of tuna haha
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Re: am i asking in the right post?

Postby jimmylegs » Sat May 26, 2012 3:56 pm

heya! sounds like a plan. make sure to include what you drink! esp since you mentioned the docs couldn't get any CSF. any chance you're somewhat dehydrated?

also don't believe the hype about avoiding immune boosters. if retinol protects you from infection, great. if as an anti-inflammatory it dampens the inflammation associated with ms, also great. there are a lot of different ways to 'boost' immune system function that actually help damp down an inappropriate immune response.

fyi i am no fan of pharma, the logic always seems off to me. i don't take any regular prescriptions myself. last time i had anything it was pain killers after a traumatic injury that needed stitches. never finished them. if i got into a situation where i needed them, so be it. but so far i'm not there.

just watch with the pulses re the inflammation rating. the thiamin's important, but you have to be careful because of the phytates in pulses in legumes. these can interfere with zinc retention, and you need to keep those zinc stores topped up!

don't stop at vit a and vit b1 - make your way through the alphabet :)

here's an entry on vit b2 - riboflavin
http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tnam ... nt&dbid=93
http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tnam ... oodsources

last of all, good! re steering clear of tuna :D i'll keep an eye out for your food/drink diary.

ttfn
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Re: am i asking in the right post?

Postby NHE » Sat May 26, 2012 5:08 pm

MScrusade wrote: I mean correct me if im wrong but im 100% sure that the treatment im on (tysabari, or natalizumab) stunts the production of white blood cells and weakens my immune system for the exact purpose of the fact that my immune system is trying to destroy my myline sheeth


That's not quite right. Here is the mechanism of Tysabri as described in the doctor's prescribing information...

12.1 Mechanism of Action
Natalizumab binds to the alpha4-subunit of alpha4 beta1 and alpha4 beta7 integrins expressed on the surface of all leukocytes except neutrophils, and inhibits the alpha4-mediated adhesion of leukocytes to their counter-receptor(s). The receptors for the alpha4 family of integrins include vascular cell adhesion molecule-1 (VCAM-1), which is expressed on activated vascular endothelium, and mucosal addressin cell adhesion molecule-1 (MAdCAM-1) present on vascular endothelial cells of the gastrointestinal tract. Disruption of these molecular interactions prevents transmigration of leukocytes across the endothelium into inflamed parenchymal tissue. In vitro, anti-alpha4-integrin antibodies also block alpha4-mediated cell binding to ligands such as osteopontin and an alternatively spliced domain of fibronectin, connecting segment-1 (CS-1). In vivo, natalizumab may further act to inhibit the interaction of alpha4 and on parenchymal cells, thereby inhibiting further recruitment and inflammatory activity of activated immune cells.


In a nutshell, Tysabri is an antibody which binds to the receptor that white blood cells need to bind to in order to cross the blood brain barrier. The binding of Tysabri blocks the cells from entering the brain.

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Re: am i asking in the right post?

Postby CureOrBust » Sat May 26, 2012 6:34 pm

If in doubt, get your prescriber's opinion. As jimmylegs says, she is not a fan of pharma and may thereby be un-aware of some contraindications with your currently chosen pharma treatment.
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Re: am i asking in the right post?

Postby jimmylegs » Sat May 26, 2012 7:06 pm

arg here's what i mean about not understanding pharma logic: (this is only from wikipedia but it makes my point)
"The drug is believed to work by reducing the ability of inflammatory immune cells to attach to and pass through the cell layers lining the intestines and blood–brain barrier."

first, they're not sure how it actually is working.

second, i'd rather use zinc to patch up the intestines, since it's more likely the poor zinc status that we see in many ms patients resulting in the permeability of the intestines and bbb in the first place. extensive posts on membrane integrity and zinc on tims over the past several years. also the zinc does so much other good stuff, the body's built to use it.
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