Why is the Wahls diet making me much worse, is it possible?

A board to discuss various diet-centered approaches to treating or controlling Multiple Sclerosis, e.g., the Swank Diet

Re: Why is the Wahls diet making me much worse, is it possib

Postby jimmylegs » Mon Dec 24, 2012 5:56 pm

up to you. it is more nuts and seeds than i eat on a daily basis but in your scenario we're looking at putting weight back on right? for myself i generally eat sunflower seeds as a salad topping, and nuts as a cereal topping. and it's not like i eat salad and/or cereal every single day.. you could start with 1/4c mixed sunflower seeds and almonds, and see how your go.

whatever you decide, you might do well to work out the details on some meals before you make the final decision on the size of snacks.

my fat calcs for today

salmon..............total fat 5g sat 1g
squash..............total fat 0g sat 0g
potato...............total fat 0g sat 0g
cabbage.............total fat 0g sat 0g
butter (1tbsp).....total fat 11g sat 7g

other than that today i had
2 eggs..............total fat 14g sat 4g
onion................total fat 3g sat 0g
pepper..............total fat 4g sat 0g
mushroom.........total fat 0g sat 0g
spinach.............total fat 0g sat 0g
back bacon........total fat 2g sat 0.5g
cheese..............total fat 6g sat 4g

i don't recall bothering to figure out my daily fat intake before, but it doesn't look that bad, even with the bacon and cheese :D

as for the calcium. it's probably fine i'm just thinking out lous. remind me if you've had a level done? basically if you have good d3 status plus a high calcium diet then you wouldn't necessarily need a calcium supplement. if calcium level gets high it can cause issues. that's only an if though.
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Re: Why is the Wahls diet making me much worse, is it possib

Postby NHE » Tue Dec 25, 2012 2:47 am

dc10 wrote:how many flaxseeds and how much flaxseed oil do you take on the das you take it?
a teaspoon, tablespoon., or in grams?


I take 1 TB/day of ground flaxseed which is 15 mL or about 8.3 g. I find that it's easier on my stomach if I mix it into some plain yogurt. By the way, there's no reason one couldn't take both ground flaxseeds as well as the oil. I get bulk, whole, organic flaxseeds from my local natural foods market for about $1.70/lb. I grind it up in a coffee grinder that I use just for the flax and it only takes about 7-8 minutes or so to do the entire lb. half a cup at a time. I find that it lasts about a month and I keep it refrigerated in a glass jar. By the way, about 2.5 TB of ground flaxseed contains 1 TB of oil.

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Re: Why is the Wahls diet making me much worse, is it possib

Postby dc10 » Sun Dec 30, 2012 9:44 am

ok, your fat intake looks good JL!

As i am reintroducing 1 supplement every 3 days, ive realised its gonna take me over a month to get back on all of them, including the important ones like vit D3, zinc & Magnesium,

do you think it might be wise to just immediately take the vit d3, zinc and magnesium \\9im already back on copper) as i dont want my levels to drop in the next few weeks of not taking them.


I am following the SWANK diet now, but really it is the Wahls diet i have been following for the last 8 months but with low sat fats, no red meat and im now eating grains and starchy veg daily, so im sure my nutrient intake would be good, considering im eating 11-12 cups of vegetables every day,


NHE,
I remember a year ago i ate 1tsp of lindseeds for a few weeks with my breakfast but found it gave me laxative effects, which isnt good when your mildly incontinent,
so after googling it says flaxseeds and linseeds are the same thing with different names,

so do you get the laxative effects from eating a TBSP of flaxseeds/linseeds regularly?
would the flaxseed OIL not cause the same effects?
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Re: Why is the Wahls diet making me much worse, is it possib

Postby NHE » Sun Dec 30, 2012 3:54 pm

dc10 wrote:I remember a year ago i ate 1tsp of lindseeds for a few weeks with my breakfast but found it gave me laxative effects, which isnt good when your mildly incontinent,
so after googling it says flaxseeds and linseeds are the same thing with different names,

so do you get the laxative effects from eating a TBSP of flaxseeds/linseeds regularly?
would the flaxseed OIL not cause the same effects?


When I first starting consuming ground flax seed I went through an adjustment period. Ground flax contains a lot of fiber which absorbs a great deal of water. I actually had the opposite effect and the ground flax seed plugged me up. I then tried mixing it into plain yogurt and that seems to help make it easier on my stomach. So the answer to your question is no, I don't experience any laxative effects from the ground flax. I also don't think the oil would cause a problem, but then I take 7.2 g of fish oil every day.

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Re: Why is the Wahls diet making me much worse, is it possib

Postby Gogo » Mon Dec 31, 2012 5:12 am

Has anyone's EDSS improved after doing Wahls diet (verified by neuro)? Also, it is part of MS that sometimes people have temporary improvements. Sometimes, even long-time progressive patients are reclassified as RRMS when they get better for a time.
Did Ms. Wahls or any diet guru claiming benefits conduct at least a small group study?
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Re: Why is the Wahls diet making me much worse, is it possib

Postby jimmylegs » Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:50 pm

dc, i think you should reintroduce the supplements and let it take a long time. so that if there's a problem you can isolate what caused it.

i think the wahls study is still in progress. other than that i think i found a case study?
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Re: Why is the Wahls diet making me much worse, is it possib

Postby dc10 » Wed Jan 02, 2013 9:26 am

ive been eating quinoa for the past 7 days, 50gram servings 1-2 times a day,
after the fifth day i had a bowel incontinence, then today i have again!

from googling i realise quinoa works as a laxative (which explains the accidents, i hope) so am going to have to cut the quinoa out,

could anyone recommend a gluten-free grain that does not have these laxative properties?
its not nice
are seeds best avoided to? i recently introduced them too

NHE, when i tried lindseeds in 2011' i done so to get regular bowel movements, but now i have had these incontinence episodes i dont want to eat anything with laxative properties.


looking at this site : http://www.oxypowder.com/laxative-foods.html
i eat 10 of the list of the 15 top laxative foods.
i can't cut all these healthy foods out though, is there anything i can do/take to reverse/counter the laxative effects?

the MS damage has clearly affected my bladder and bowel continence, but the foods im eating with the laxative effects is just exacerbating my bowel problems,
thanks
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Re: Why is the Wahls diet making me much worse, is it possib

Postby jimmylegs » Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:49 pm

maybe you could try brown rice and/or oats - hopefully that will be okay
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Re: Why is the Wahls diet making me much worse, is it possib

Postby vesta » Thu Jan 03, 2013 2:08 pm

I can't eat glutens (wheat, rye, barley oats) OK grains are rice, corn, millet, buckwheat. Rice is considered constipating. I think you were starving yourself by not eating some grains. I'm going to put up on my site my strict diet personalized by a kinesiologist through muscle testing in the 1980's which really detoxed and healed, but then I stopped to unfortunate results. MS Cure Enigmas.net
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Re: Why is the Wahls diet making me much worse, is it possib

Postby dc10 » Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:39 am

thanks JL and vesta,
i will continue to eat wholemeal rice and gluten free oats and see what happens,

in my breakfast smoothie i have a cup of spinach cup of brocolli and a carrot, all boiled
jl, i recall yo saying something about spinach being best when boiled, if i remember correctly?
as id much prefer to blend these veggies raw, as raw veg is claimed to be superior to cooked veg
+ its a lot quicker to make


i saw an MS nurse specialist who looked at my pressure sore/red mark on my natal cleft/coccyx, and the MS nurse believed this is a likely cause of my deterioration and looking back, my bladder and legs did get bit worse when the ulcer developed back in July 2011' and even moreso when it became infected in March/April 12'
Im now thinking the wahls diet simply contributed to the pressure sore by lowering body fat, and thats not good when you have a boney coccyx and expecting it to repair/heal

so maybe, just maybe the pressure sore/red mark is the main cause of my worsening, it does make sense (but so did the other ideas)
so even though im a bit annoyed i now eat grains (against wahls diet) least i know this is increasing my weight/bodyfat
i am due to get a mattress suited for pressure ulcers so hopefully this will aid the repair

- but the general surgeon i saw in October didnt think it was a pilonidal sinus or pressure ulcer and that it was just a red mark from being thin and sedentary
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Re: Why is the Wahls diet making me much worse, is it possib

Postby lyndacarol » Fri Jan 04, 2013 6:06 pm

This wound healing gel, developed in the UK, might help with pressure sores:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,599224,00.html


New Gel Could Speed Wound Healing

Published August 12, 2010

Associated Press

For three years, Connie McPherson had debilitating leg ulcers that were so painful she sometimes couldn't sleep. Despite repeated surgery, antibiotics, steroids and other treatments, nothing helped.

Then last year, she took part in a trial for a new gel aimed at chronic wounds.

"It was the answer to my prayers," said McPherson, 58, a real estate agent in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Within weeks, McPherson said the ulcer treated was completely healed. "I tried everything possible and this is the only thing that worked."

The gel used to treat McPherson was developed by a team led by David Becker, a professor of cell and developmental biology at University College London. The gel, named Nexagon, works by interrupting how cells communicate and prevents the production of a protein that blocks healing. That allows cells to move faster to the wound to begin healing it.

Though it has only been tested on about 100 people so far, experts say if it proves successful, the gel could have a major impact on treating chronic wounds, like leg or diabetes ulcers, and even common scrapes or injuries from accidents.

In most chronic wounds, Becker said there is an abnormal amount of a protein involved in inflammation.

To reduce its amount, Becker and colleagues made Nexagon from bits of DNA that can block the protein's production. "As that protein is turned off, cells move in to close the wound," Becker said. The gel is clear and has the consistency of toothpaste.

In an early study on leg ulcers, scientists at the company Becker co-founded to develop the gel found that after four weeks, the number of people with completely healed ulcers was five times higher in patients who got the gel versus those who didn't. The average leg ulcer takes up to six months to heal and 60 percent of patients get repeated ulcers.

Other experts said the gel appeared promising. "It looks like the gel has a good effect in getting the outer layer (of skin) to restore itself," said Phil Stephens, head of tissue engineering and repair at Cardiff University. Stephens is not linked to Becker's research.

Still, Stephens said it is crucial the gel doesn't interfere too much with the inflammation process. "You need inflammatory cells to get in there and clean up the wound," he said.

The gel has also been used on a handful of people who have suffered serious chemical burns to their eyes, including a 25-year-old workman in New Zealand who accidentally squirted liquid cement into one of his eyes. In that case and five others, after Nexagon was applied, the outer lining of the patients' eyes and the blood vessels within them regrew, saving their vision. In the U.S., the gel has been granted approval by the Food and Drug Administration for serious eye injuries.

"This gel has the potential to do a lot of good," said Dr. Thomas Serena, founder and director of the Penn North Centers for Advanced Wound Care in Pennsylvania. Serena has no financial ties to Nexagon, but is one of the primary investigators for a U.S. trial of the product.

Another study is planned soon which experts said should answer more questions like the right dosage of the gel and any side effects.

In the U.S., there are 70 million people with chronic wounds. With increasing rates of obesity, experts predict there will soon be many more people suffering from diabetic ulcers.

Other gels are on the market, but don't work for everyone. Bioengineered skin, a protein that regulates cell growth and division, and even maggots are among the few other treatments that have been found to speed up healing.

Brad Duft, president of CoDa Therapeutics, which is developing the new gel, would not say how much Nexagon currently costs to make, for proprietary reasons.

He said the gel is still a couple of years away from being on the market and the price will drop significantly when that happens. Some leg ulcer patients spend about $30,000 a year or more on treatment. Duft said the new gel would cost a fraction of that.

For McPherson, the experience of being treated with Nexagon was so positive she asked to be included in the gel's next trial, to treat an even larger ulcer that wasn't eligible for the first study.

"To have something that works would change my life," she said.
My hypothesis: excess insulin (hyperinsulinemia) plays a major role in MS, as developed in my initial post: http://www.thisisms.com/forum/general-discussion-f1/topic1878.html "Insulin – Could This Be the Key?"
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Re: Why is the Wahls diet making me much worse, is it possib

Postby dc10 » Sun Jan 06, 2013 2:07 pm

thanks lynda,
those dressings look great, but they are not available yet, so will have to go for a different dressing,

any thoughts on these 2 dressings for pressure sore - that isnt healing after 18 months - located on the natal cleft / tailbone:

hydrocolloid dressings – these contain a special gel that encourages the growth of new skin cells in the ulcer while keeping dry the surrounding healthy area of skin
alginate dressings – these are made from seaweed and contain sodium and calcium, which are known to speed up the healing process
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Re: Why is the Wahls diet making me much worse, is it possib

Postby lyndacarol » Sun Jan 06, 2013 6:19 pm

dc10 – In regard to availability of this new wound healing gel, Nexagon, the article states that only 100 people have been tested SO FAR. Might it be possible, through your physician, to offer to participate in a further study?

Or, the article mentions that the gel is FDA-approved for serious eye injuries. It is my understanding that a drug approved for ANY use can be prescribed "off-label" by a willing physician for any other condition he thinks it might help.

I have no opinion on the two treatments you described – I know nothing about them. I would certainly consider anything that had a possibility of helping, but had no risk of harm.
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Re: Why is the Wahls diet making me much worse, is it possib

Postby dc10 » Tue Jan 08, 2013 3:45 am

lynda,
i could ask my GP when i next see him, i doubt he will prescribe s it's "off-lbel" though as he refused me LDN which ive been taking for 5 years
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Re: Why is the Wahls diet making me much worse, is it possib

Postby dc10 » Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:58 pm

Hi JL,

I just got my results back for my ferritin level, if you remember i also got another FBC and liver function test at the same time
- i got the bloods drawn on 21/12/12 , but i didnt start including grains in my diet till 23/12/12
but i had been including starchy veg in my wahls diet (sweet potato & butternut squash) on 17/12/12 due to the weight loss,
well the results were:

- A * before the test name indicates my result was out of the range


Serum Ferritin
= 137 ng/ml ----- RANGE = 30 - 400

On 11/12 - 14/12 took Ferrous Fumarate 210mg (69mg elemental iron) x2tablets daily for 4 days, so this could of raised my iron levels, but i was off the iron for 8 days leading up to my bloods being drawn


Full Blood Count:

* Haemoglobin estimation = 12.9 g/dl ----- RANGE = 13 - 18
* Total white cell count = 3.6 10*9/L ----- RANGE = 4 - 11
Platelet count = 176 10*9/L ----- RANGE = 140 - 400
* Mean corpuscular volume (MCV) = 102.0 fL ----- RANGE = 76 - 98
Mean corpusc. Hb. conc (MCHC) = 33.2 g/gL ----- RANGE = 32 - 36
* Mean corpusc. haemoglobin (MCH) = 33.9 pg ----- RANGE = 27-32
* Red blood cell (RBC) count = 3.82 10*12/l ----- RANGE = 4.5 - 6.5
* Haematogrit = 0.390 per cent ----- RANGE = 0.4 - 0.54
RBC - red blood cell size = 12.0 fL ----- RANGE = 9 - 15
Mean platelet volume = 8.5 fL NO RANGE GIVEN so assume was in range as no *


Differential white cell count


Monocytecount = 0.3 10*9/L ----- RANGE = 0 - 1.2
* Lymphocyte count = 1.3 10*9/L ----- RANGE = 1.4 - 4
Basophil count = 0.0 10*9/L ----- RANGE = 0 - 0.2
Eosinophil count = 0.0 10*9/L ----- RANGE = 0 - 0.4
Neutrophil count = 2.0 10*9/L ----- RANGE = 2 - 7.5


Liver function test

Serum alkaline phosphatase = 47 u/L ----- RANGE = 30 - 130
Serum total bilirubin level= 5 umol/L ----- RANGE = 0 - 21
* Serum albumin = 51 g/L ----- RANGE = 35 - 50
Plasma ALT level = 22 u/L ----- RANGE = 0 - 41


So now i know my iron levels are okay, and my B12 and folate levels are high, it does worry me why i have low red/white cell counts, any other reasons?
i know i was borderline low for my serum copper but 8 days before having these bloods drawn, i started 4x 2mg copper supplements, so 8,g daily elemental copper leading up to the bloods being drawn.... surely if copper was the cuse of the lo red/white cell count, my red/white cells shouldnt have been so low still?

Im concerned my white & red cell counts are low, again,
but i didnt change to he Swank diet till 23/12/12 - where i removed red meat, reduced sat fats to < 15grams a day, removed organ meat, coconut oil, and included grains with 2 of my 3 daily meals,eating starchy veg.

what are your and others thoughts on these blood results and my low blood cell count?
i was told if my ferritin, b12 and folate levels are in range, my low red cell count could be ue to internal bleeding :s

thank you for all opinions
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