Jelinek diet discussion

A board to discuss various diet-centered approaches to treating or controlling Multiple Sclerosis, e.g., the Swank Diet

Postby laura383 » Tue Jul 12, 2011 5:52 am

Thanks for this, it's really helpful and makes it easier to keep going on taking 5 fish oil caps at each meal for a total of 15!

I'm taking these: http://www.swansonvitamins.com/SWE026/ItemDetail

They have 300 EPA's (which is what I base it on) and I take 15/day, unless I run out and then I take these because I have some: http://www.sundownnaturals.com/products ... 0768168889
(since they are "extra strength" I took that to mean concentrated, but turns out they don't list the Omega-3 amount alone. So they might just have more fish oil.)

Abe's sound like the best ones! But the Swanson's are $6.99 for 100.
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Postby LR1234 » Tue Jul 12, 2011 6:27 am

I have recently accepted that I cannot take any fish oil supps.
For some reason it seems to increase my symptoms. I have liver problems and I think the oils are too hard for my body to breakdown and I end up having relapses .....I am sure I am in the minority but I thought I would add my experiences of the oils.

I can however handle flaxseed but whether my body can convert it properly..I have no idea
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Postby Abe » Tue Jul 12, 2011 8:06 am

NHE wrote:


Here's an older study that looked at the effects of oemga-3 fatty acids on inflammatory cytokine secretion. The patients in this study were taking 6 g/day of a concentrated prescription omega-3 supplement that contained 86% EPA+DHA for a total dose of 5.16g/day of EPA+DHA omega-3 fatty acids.

NHE


Thanks NHE. I guess I'm upping my dosage to 9 caps!

I'd like to talk to a nutritionist about the possibility of mercury poisoning at higher doses too...
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Postby jimmylegs » Tue Jul 12, 2011 8:19 am

hi LR, do you know your zinc status?
READ ME key info on nutrient targets - www.thisisms.com/ftopict-2489.html
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Postby laura383 » Tue Jul 12, 2011 8:26 am

LR1234 said "I have recently accepted that I cannot take any fish oil supps.
For some reason it seems to increase my symptoms. I have liver problems and I think the oils are too hard for my body to breakdown and I end up having relapses .....I am sure I am in the minority but I thought I would add my experiences of the oils."


LR1234, there are some pwMS I have run across who treat by taking no animal products into their body of any kind. No meat, eggs, oil, etc. Strictly vegan. For some people, it is good (I have tried vegetarian with fish, but not vegan-not helpful for me).
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Postby jimmylegs » Tue Jul 12, 2011 10:08 am

we are a real mixed bag. i was vegan for 15 years and then dx'd with ms. go figure :S
READ ME key info on nutrient targets - www.thisisms.com/ftopict-2489.html
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Postby laura383 » Tue Jul 12, 2011 10:28 am

Jeez, talk about doing everything right and then being struck with a bolt of lightning!
I on the other hand was a fairly unhealthy eater--fast food, etc. though I took vitamins. Ironically I eat better now (no gluten, dairy, legumes, sugar etc) than then. I couldn't even have imagined giving up those things, before.
Any port in a storm!
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Postby jimmylegs » Tue Jul 12, 2011 12:06 pm

yea you'd think vegan *sounds* right, big but though.

i made myself vit b12 deficient, iron deficient, vit d3 deficient, zinc deficient, protein deficient, fatty acid deficient, low uric acid, low albumin, etc etc etc, it just goes on and on..! crazy world.

one aspect: lots of grains and gluten in my vegan diet. that alone makes for a big zinc drain when you eat, combined with a low zinc intake in the first place. not a good scene.

more to it than that but there's a snapshot anyway :)
READ ME key info on nutrient targets - www.thisisms.com/ftopict-2489.html
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Postby laura383 » Tue Jul 12, 2011 1:11 pm

jimmylegs wrote: made myself vit b12 deficient, iron deficient, vit d3 deficient, zinc deficient, protein deficient, fatty acid deficient, low uric acid, low albumin, etc etc etc, it just goes on and on..! crazy world.


I think you feel better now if I recall right, but I'm curious which level getting into range helped you the most? (I just saw your post about correct ranges).
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Postby jimmylegs » Tue Jul 12, 2011 5:02 pm

yep i fixed it all by going back to an omnivore diet with careful attention to balancing foods and optimizing serum levels of stuff with supplementation. it's really hard to say which helped me the most because they all caused such widely different problems.

i'd have to say the klenner regimen (mostly high b-vitamins and vit E) worked best to redress my lost position sensory and l'hermittes sign.

fixing zinc fixed my low uric acid, and when the zinc was optimized, it corrected brain damage ie crazy spatial perception issues that almost lost me my drivers' license.

sorting out magnesium (which was depleted by high dosing vit d3) fixed spasticity issues including difficulty breathing and swallowing (i was feeling in constant danger of suffocating due to my throat not working).

complicated huh :)
READ ME key info on nutrient targets - www.thisisms.com/ftopict-2489.html
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Postby lyndacarol » Tue Jul 12, 2011 6:18 pm

LR1234 wrote:I have recently accepted that I cannot take any fish oil supps.
For some reason it seems to increase my symptoms. I have liver problems and I think the oils are too hard for my body to breakdown and I end up having relapses .....I am sure I am in the minority but I thought I would add my experiences of the oils.

I can however handle flaxseed but whether my body can convert it properly..I have no idea


You know my belief about excess insulin, so my comment here will not surprise you, LR: I try to reduce every form of sugar or sweetener in my diet that might stimulate more insulin production. Some time ago I discovered that my fish oil capsules contained sorbitol, a sugar alcohol. For that reason, I discontinued those capsules.

LR, check the ingredients label on your capsules to see if this might be the situation for you.

By the way, my insulin hypothesis has recently expanded to a more inclusive metabolic syndrome hypothesis. The liver plays a vital role.

Here are my suspicions about my case: A lifetime diet of too many carbs, starch and sugar, contributed to deep abdominal fat (visceral fat) although I have never had a weight problem – I have always been "normal" or even slim.

Visceral fat secretes cytokines (interferons, interleukins, etc. – chemicals that poison the liver and, I suspect, cause overproduction of insulin in the pancreas. I know that insulin will cross the blood-brain barrier and even damage the inside of the blood vessels. I think this is the beginning of MS.

These are my unique ideas; I am not a scientist and I have not found a scientist to support these ideas. The closest I have found is a university researcher who calls them "plausible." My current action plan is to follow a diet that detoxifies the liver; interestingly, this closely follows Dr. Terry Wahls' diet with kale, other green leafy vegetables, and cruciferous vegetables.
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Postby laura383 » Wed Jul 13, 2011 11:58 am

Thanks Jimmylegs! I am getting some testing done. I might start a new thread when I do since I am way off topic for Jelinek now! But I am gladly taking my fish oil, especially since I read the abstract of the study posted by NHE!
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Postby mrbarlow » Wed Jul 13, 2011 1:22 pm

All I can say is that many of us owe Jimmylegs a debt of gratitute for the information posted here about diet and supplements.

7 months ago I was recovering from my first and only attack. I wouldn't say I am 100% recovered but careful attention to diet and supplements have had a major effect on my health and I am healthier than I have been for years. JL's posts have been a great source of inspiration and encouragement to me.

I can manage 6km walks in 38 degree heat 3/4 times per week
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Postby jimmylegs » Wed Jul 13, 2011 3:17 pm

that is awesome to hear, mrb.

glad you are doing so much better!
READ ME key info on nutrient targets - www.thisisms.com/ftopict-2489.html
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Re: fish oil and mercury

Postby NHE » Fri Jul 15, 2011 10:36 pm

NHE wrote:
laura383 wrote:Hi Abe, Many fish oil caps (at least those I've seen) say "molecularly distilled" to filter out mercury. Does that not do a good job? I thought we were safe because of it.


There was an article in the Consumer Reports magazine that tested about a half dozen or so of the major brands of fish oil. All were found to be within safe limits. Perhaps I can dig up this reference later, but you should be able to find it through their website and then get it from your local library.


I found the paper and scanned it to pdf. I will make it available for a short time for those who are interested. They tested 16 different brands of fish oil and sent them to two different independent labs where they were analyzed for Mercury, Dioxin, PCB and spoilage. In addition, CR's own labs tested them for omega-3 content. The article simply states that all of the brands analyzed contained the quantity of omega-3 fatty acids listed on the label and that none of them exceeded recommended safety levels for any of the contaminants though neither the data for each of the brands nor the limit was given in the article.

CR Fish Oil


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