Antibiotics and MS

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Antibiotics and MS

Postby wilson » Sat Jul 17, 2004 2:47 pm

After serious reflection, I decided to stop using the ABCR drugs as a treatment. I do want to try Minocycline as an alternative treatment. My main question is what is the consequence on being on antibiotics for long periods of time? Is it true that after some time your body builds up an immunity to the antibiotic? Or this only pertains to certain types of antibiotic medicine?

All be well.
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Postby Arron » Sat Jul 17, 2004 6:42 pm

Wilson,

You may try posting this in the Regimins thread about antibiotics. Anecdote is our resident expert on this topic.

http://www.thisisms.com/modules.php?nam ... opic&t=277
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Postby Felly » Sat Jul 17, 2004 11:05 pm

Hi Wilson,

Just a note of caution about coming off avonex and switching to Minocycline. While Minocycline looks extremely promising it is still early days.

I have just switched to copaxone from rebif and intend to take minocycline with the copaxone, personally (and this can only ever be a personal choice) I wouldn't dream -at this stage- of going off the ABCr drugs entirely until more research has been done.

I urge you to consider taking minocycline with an ABCR, maybe copaxone (as you may know Teva is sponsoring a trial of copaxone with minocycline to assess the potential synergistic effect of copaxone with minocyline) until more studies have been done.

As to your questions about building up an immunity to the antibiotic. Taking any antibiotic over a long period of time will make bacteria less susceptible to the antibiotic ***BUT*** that doesn't appear to have anything to do with minocyline use in MS. Its action is through inhibition of MMP activity, reducing the the production of MMP-9 and therefore the passage of leukocytes in to the CNS. Essential this means it has neuro-protective qualities. The studies so far have nothing to do with the argument of bacteria being a possible cause of MS nor have they shown any link.

As for side effects - long term side effects are still unknown, it seems pretty safe but then no drug is completely safe and all drugs effect individuals in different ways - so what is safe for one person may not be so safe for another.

I would imagine that over a longer period of time, like with any antibiotic, it may cause a bacterial overgrowth - such as yeast infections.

I'm quite excited about minocycline and think it will may prove very beneficial when taken with copaxone in protecting whats left of my dwindling brain cells.

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Postby Guest » Sun Jul 18, 2004 6:40 am

Felly,

Thank you for your feedback. I did not come up with my decision lightly. And, I wouldn’t suggest this course of action to anyone else. But I feel it may be the best course of action for me.

I had my first attack in January. I became numb on my whole right side. Face, arm, and leg were severely affected. MRI results revealed numerous lesions in T2 area. Since then, I regained two thirds of mobility back and hoping to regain the rest back soon.

Since the diagnosis, I have changed my diet and began eating better. I have been regularly exercising, and cut out all products that contain Aspartame (just in case.)

I feel VERY fortunate that I have not suffered additional attacks since my first. I still keep a slim hope that it is not MS but something else (a little denial).

The main reason I just stop using Avenox was due to the severe side effects. Even after three months, the side effects never diminished. Plus, it bothered me to give so much money to a company that heavily overcharged for their treatment. Frankly, I just don’t trust them. Avenox literally ruin two days out of the week for me. That is not quality of life.

I was thinking of switching to Copaxone but I want to try the antibiotic route first. I want to go on Minocycline for six months and then do another MRI. This all depends whether my neuro will go along with this course of action. I will keep this site posted on the results.
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Postby Felly » Sun Jul 18, 2004 7:17 am

Hi Wilson,

I hope it goes well for you and sorry to hear avonex gave you such a hard time.

I agree with you about the overcharging - tell you something that is really p**S*ng me off -thast I have a fridge full of rebif that I won't be using. As you may know in the UK we don't pay for our prescription (apart from the standard £6.95 charge that is) and the delivery company keeps you stocked up with two weeks supply at any one time, so when I switched to copaxone I had two weeks of rebif left and of course they can't take it back. What a waste.

Copaxone is going well and I am reasonbly impressed with the results coming out about it (ignore the cochrane study which was quite limited in what they were looking and did not consider the latest research from April 2004).

I have a lot more confidence in it than I would in rebif or avonex etc. I wouldn't dream of telling you what to do and god knows I don't want to sound like Willy here, but I would urge you to think again about going on to copaxone, yes it is something you have to take everyday but the side affects are minimal in comparison to the other DMDs and it has a track history unlike minocycline.

Ok I will shut up now.

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Postby Guest » Sun Jul 18, 2004 11:17 am

Felly,

Do you have the research link , April 2004 ,you are refering to concerning Copaxone trials?

Have you considered using Copaxone every other day? I read that there was study done that injections of Copaxone every other day is just as effective as every day injections.
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Postby Felly » Sun Jul 18, 2004 12:16 pm

http://www.docguide.com/news/content.ns ... AD0055CA3E

http://www.docguide.com/news/content.ns ... s&count=10

Regarding taking copaxone every other day, my strategy is starting on the every day dosage, adding minocycline at the 3 month mark and then cutting the copaxone down to every other day and taking both minocycline and copaxone.

Hope this helps,
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Postby Ptwo » Mon Jul 19, 2004 5:19 am

There are a bunch of websites that say the overuse (or use of for that matter)of antibiotics is harmful to the helpful bacteria in the digestive tract. I even remember a thread a few years back on some message board that the cause of ms was the overuse of antibiotics, at least that was the poster's theory. Is there a real danger to helpful bacteria by starting an antibiotic treatment for ms?

Peter
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Postby Felly » Mon Jul 19, 2004 6:31 am

Yes and no.

No antibiotic is good long or short term but one has to weigh up the pros and cons here - if it can add to the copaxone in terms of diminishing MMP activity then its worth it and is it any worse than an ABCR in terms of side affects? I don't think so.

There are so many theories about the causes of MS and I not altogether sure the one you speak of has any more validity than any of them and much less than many. I have only taken antibiotics once in my life -when I was 26 and that was long after my first attack of MS.

Yes, you are correct in that there is a danger to friendly bacteria so one has to be careful and understand the risks. To minimise the effects you need to take a good probiotic at the same time such as Lactobacillus casei probiotic. I would also take betaine hydrochloride, chromium and possibly Caprylic Acid. And lots and lots of yoghurt as well as my usual supplement routine.

I don't intend to stay on minocyline for more than 2 month bursts at any time, followed by 2 weeks off. Nor do I intend to take it for more than 6 month period, at which point I will review the treatment.

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