First Symptoms of MS - Help appreciated :)

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Postby jimmylegs » Tue Mar 02, 2010 4:56 am

shiny, welcome back.

did you have a leisure trip? or was it business?

glad to hear you got some tests run. that is great.

your doc is right to be cautious but i think that is a bit over cautious really. your levels are likely suboptimal (you need to be well up over 100nmol/L) and although i can't find the literature on vitamin D3 and cancer risks, i think i heard that the potential link would be something to do with if a patient's levels fluctuated wildly - you'd have to be consistent with the supplementing.
"Current research has implicated vitamin D deficiency as a major factor in the pathology of at least 17 varieties of cancer as well as heart disease, stroke, hypertension, autoimmune diseases, diabetes, depression, chronic pain, osteoarthritis, osteoporosis, muscle weakness, muscle wasting, birth defects, periodontal disease, and more."

as for the night vision, it's just another indicator of potential trouble with zinc. i was just kind of thinking, it sounds like a zinc problem, and if the night vision is bad too then it's even more likely to be a zinc problem.

make sure you get your test results, numbers and units - do NOT let them tell you 'it's normal'. average zinc in healthy controls is around 18.2 umol/L.

here are a couple of interesting abstracts:
Zinc therapy for night blindness in cystic fibrosis
This is the first report of a supplemented CF patient presenting with clinical vitamin A deficiency to be successfully treated with zinc therapy alone. Therefore in addition to retinol supplementation, normalizing serum zinc levels may be important in maintaining the vitamin A status of CF patients. The interactions and synergistic effects between the two micronutrients are discussed.
Zinc deficiency: a cause of abnormal dark adaptation in cirrhotics
Six stable alcoholic cirrhotics with serum zinc less than 70 microgram/100 ml had abnormal dark adaptation responses (mean dark adapted final threshold 3.2 +/- 0.6 versus 2.1 +/- 0.2 log lux in 21 age matched controls, P less than 0.01). Serum vitamin A ranged from 15 to 37 microgram/100 ml. Zinc sulfate (220 mg/day) was fed to three patients for 1 to 2 weeks and dark adapted final thresholds fell 0.9, 0.4, and 1.2 log lux without concurrent rises in serum vitamin A. Two patients were treated initially with oral vitamin A (10,000 IU/day) for 2 to 4 weeks, but their final thresholds fell to normal (2.1, 2.2 log lux) only after the addition of zinc for 1 to 2 weeks. The sixth patient, treated with vitamin A and zinc together, attained a normal final threshold in 2 weeks. The improvement in dark adaptation by zinc may be due to enhanced activity of previously depressed retinol dehydrogenase.


there is controversy in the literature about the utility of zinc for vision. what i get from it is, basically, if your zinc level is fine to start, adding more won't sort out your vision. if you start low (and ms patients tend to be lower in zinc on average) then adding zinc is more likely to help.

HTH! i'll be keeping an eye out for results :)
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Postby shinyredsparkles » Tue Mar 02, 2010 6:44 pm

luckily it wasn't for business, just packed up with a friend and went away for a month on a whim, it was magnificent!!!

Well I'm now completely FASCINATED about the zinc & night vision links. As i said, it's something i've had an issue with for years (to the point where i find it difficult to drive down narrow streets at night because i can't judge distances and i'm terrified of smashing into parked cars!). I went to an optometrist ages ago to ask about it, but there's not really much they can do for that sort of issue.

I had no idea there was a link between that and zinc - I will definitely be doing some more research now. You guys are a wealth of knowledge - it's fantastic!

i do want to know my calcium levels though - i'm curious now after having kidney stones, and now the optic neuritis/ms risk.

I'll make sure I get a copy of my results and post them on here (you will probably give me more information about them than my doctor, lol!). After I had the kidney stones, I did get my Vitamin D levels tested (in 2008) and I know they were fine then, so I'm not expecting much of a change there. I was a bit confused about her caution as well, as all my immediate femalefamily members (going back 3 generations!) suffer from auto-immune diseases (mainly thyroid), and I know they take vitamin D3 supplements consistently.

I should have the results mid next week, so stay tuned :) thank you for all the information again, it's wonderful!!!
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Postby jimmylegs » Tue Mar 02, 2010 7:40 pm

okay, seriously, i am eager to hear about your zinc results now. night vision aside, right before i found out about my own zinc deficiency i had problems assessing distance while driving.. but in broad daylight. it is very interesting to hear that your night vision issues have to do with assessing distances!
may i inquire what your d3 levels were in 2008?
looking forward to your results!
READ ME key info on nutrient targets - www.thisisms.com/ftopict-2489.html
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Postby shinyredsparkles » Wed Mar 03, 2010 4:06 pm

did you really?! im known as a bit of a running joke at work because im forever bumping into things... when i walk, i always cut corners (thinking im further away from things than i am) and thus have permanent bruises on my hips from clipping things because i cant judge distance. lol. i always just assumed i was uncoordinated... if my zinc levels come back and they're fine, i guess i will have to accept that i am just unco :)

i don't know what my d3 levels were in 2008, the GP just said they were "fine". and of course i didnt ask any further :) but i will ask for a copy of these next results for myself so i can post them. i just hope they give them to me - i had real issues getting a copy of my original MRI results, apparently it's against "procedure & policy" ????!!!!!!!!
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Postby jimmylegs » Wed Mar 03, 2010 4:25 pm

hi shiny, i certainy hope you can get a copy of your own medical records for goodness' sakes! never let doctors tell you your levels are fine, that is some of the most frustrating crap i have learned since i got diagnosed - how wrong wrong wrong the system is with respect to what's 'fine'.

for example (excuse me if you have heard this story already) when my zinc deficiency came through the original range was something like i don't know, 11.5 at the bottom. mine tested 8.6. because i was outside the bottom of the range, it got flagged as a problem.

next time i got a zinc test the range had changed to include my 8.6 data point, because apparently it is the range of ALL THE TESTS DONE. now, anyone who gets a zinc test from that lab after me will be told they are fine until they get below my 8.6 data point and only then will they be told that their results are not 'normal'. IMHO this is negligent health care!!!

i did have to pay for my MRI results when i got my copy.. at the desk when i first asked for them, i was getting a bit of a run-around until they realized i was going to pay them the 30 bucks or whatever it was for the CD.

i look forward to hearing whether you can get your hands on the d3 and zinc results!
READ ME key info on nutrient targets - www.thisisms.com/ftopict-2489.html
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Postby jimmylegs » Sat Mar 27, 2010 11:23 am

found one of the studies re high vitamin d3 and cancer risk. it's for prostate cancer. so you can have either low or high d3 with increased prostate cancer risk. so there is some correlation going on there, but i wonder what is going on with some of the other parts of the picture... eg calcium, magnesium, zinc etc

http://www.direct-ms.org/pdf/VitDNonAut ... Cancer.pdf
READ ME key info on nutrient targets - www.thisisms.com/ftopict-2489.html
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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