For those who associate MS with a virus

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For those who associate MS with a virus

Postby Lyon » Wed Jul 07, 2010 6:47 pm

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Postby rainer » Wed Jul 07, 2010 7:05 pm

As the kids say, that is "hot". :)
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Postby dignan » Wed Jul 07, 2010 8:43 pm

I don't know about kids these days, but nice article Bob. Sounds like GeNeuro is an interesting company to watch: http://www.geneuro.com/
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Postby joeymia » Thu Jul 08, 2010 9:13 am

that's very interesting. makes sense why something like alpha-fetoprotein would help...
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Postby tara97 » Fri Jul 09, 2010 10:51 am

In my family you either have schizophrenia or ms but only down one family line. do you want to be a talking head or a walking body. I dont know who wins. I dont understand why it has to be either environment or genetics or viral. these diseases are so incredibly complicated and are pan systemic. there is room for everyones theories from micro biology to the organ systems. genetic seseptability to retro viruses sounds more like it.
I have to find it but there was a documentary about how there are some people who were emersed in high risk behavior in san francisco during the early 80s who did not contract AIDS. they found that they possessed the same gene those who survived the plague (bacteria infection) possessed. they called it a longevity gene.

I believe that a combination of susebtability with genetic vulnerability, viruses, environmental stresses and finally nutritional deficiencies all work together to form the end result, brain lession, after a long line of system failures.
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Postby ssmme » Fri Jul 09, 2010 12:37 pm

This is the article I started a thread about several weeks ago. It was published in the Discover magazine issued in I think April or May of this year.
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Postby Lyon » Fri Jul 09, 2010 12:41 pm

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Postby Lyon » Fri Jul 09, 2010 4:41 pm

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Postby gainsbourg » Sun Jul 11, 2010 9:51 am

Count me in - I am a strong believer that MS is viral in origin, namely the herpes virus. I also agree that MS will not turn out to be as complicated as some people predict.

There was a recent article "Cold Sore Virus May Contribute to Cognitive and Brain Abnormalities in Schizophrenia"

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/05/100528211200.htm

ScienceDaily (May 29, 2010) — Exposure to the common virus that causes cold sores may be partially responsible for shrinking regions of the brain and the loss of concentration skills, memory, coordinated movement and dexterity widely seen in patients with schizophrenia, according to research led by Johns Hopkins scientists.

"We're finding that some portion of cognitive impairment usually blamed solely on the disease of schizophrenia might actually be a combination of schizophrenia and prior exposure to herpes simplex virus 1 infection, which reproduces in the brain," says study leader David J. Schretlen, Ph.D., an associate professor in the Department of Psychiatry at Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine.

....these results suggest that HSV-1 might be directly causing the cognitive deficits by attacking these brain regions, Schretlen says.




With regard to MS, researchers nearly always attempt to find evidence of a herpes attack on nerve tissue but this has never been found. I think it is the mere presence of the inactive herpes virus that "scares" or stimulates the immune system into launching an attack on healthy tissue in the locality of the virus. For me, this explains why a Mexican study (2008) found that herpes (varicella-zoster) DNA increased in the spinal fluid by over 500 times during MS attacks. VZV DNA was not found in the spinal fluid of any of those who did not have MS.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18306233


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Postby ikulo » Sun Jul 11, 2010 2:15 pm

There was a post on the CCSVI forum a while ago about Herpes/EBV causing CCSVI. Most people dismissed that link and stuck to the theory that CCSVI was congenital, mostly because of the classification by the phlebologists that it was congenital. In my opinion, this classification is, at this time, speculation. It just doesn't make sense to me that one would have a stenosed jugular vein for 40 years without other symptoms. But when I look at a cause of CCSVI being herpes or something viral, it makes much more sense. It could even potentially explain why stenoses comes and goes, in some cases.

So in my view it's plausible that a virus attacks the endothelium/venous structure and then leads to CCSVI.
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Postby Lyon » Sun Jul 11, 2010 3:17 pm

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Postby Drury » Mon Jul 12, 2010 7:37 pm

The possibility of CCSVI being herpes related is very interesting. We all know herpes can be chicken pox, shingles, cold sores, genital, etc. and like you said the spinal fluid of all MS patients is loaded with it when having a flare-up.

I am inclined to agree that the idea of CCSVI being congenital seems far fetched and I would definitely put the viral theory above that.

My daughter was absolutely MS free until she had a very severe case of chicken pox at age 23 and then major brain trauma from a car accident at age 26. Showed symptoms of MS shortly after accident but was not diagnosed until a year later.

Cannot be a coincidence.

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Postby gainsbourg » Tue Jul 13, 2010 2:09 am

It's no accident that Italian doctors are so interested in MS. The sunny Mediterranean islands of Sardinia and Sicily are well known MS hotspots (confounding supporters of the vitamin D hypothesis), whereas Malta, just a few miles away has a low incidence of MS.

These islands also happen to be herpes (HHV8) hotspots. They are endemic with Kaposi's sarcoma (non aids related cases) a rare form of cancer which is always triggered by the presence of human herpes virus-8 (HHV8).

http://resources.metapress.com/pdf-preview.axd?code=rq7r393u42373500&size=largest

http://www.springerlink.com/content/1h9murpp2xf2gabd/

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Postby Drury » Tue Jul 13, 2010 11:22 am

gainsbourg,

That is really interesting and it does seem to blow a hole in the vitamin D thing. I will also mention that I when I was pregnant with my daughter we were living in Madrid until she was well over two years old so no shortage of vit D there.

I wonder what the herpes ratio in MS patients is in places like Scotland, Canada, Colorado etc? I know that you do not have to have physical herpes as in actual outbreak but I understand it lies dormant in the spinal column? I am not suggesting that if you have herpes you have MS but if chicken pox for eg is involved it will be interesting to see if the vaccination that is available in USA will make a difference down the road. I know it is not available in UK and Europe or at least it was not up until recently.

On another note there is an excellent article by Peter O. Behan a Professor of neurology in Glasgow that is really worth reading if you can look it up 'Futility of Autoimmune Orthodoxy in MS Research' - sorry I am useless at adding links as not computer literate at all.

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Postby ikulo » Tue Jul 13, 2010 6:11 pm

The vitamin D theory still may fit in with a virus theory. Rummaging around the internet I found a few studies stating that Vitamin D is an antiviral. So it's not out of the realm of possibilities that a low Vitamin D level, combined with a virus, and maybe even other factors, could produce a perfect storm leading to what we call MS and/or CCSVI.

Of course these are wild speculations on my part (merely for the sake of discussion though), but the MS story seems to be much more complex than just a simple virus or vitamin deficiency alone. For example, EBV is found in something like 95% of the population. Vitamin D deficiency is also prevalent in our population, especially in North America/Europe. These may all be necessary factors, but the evidence does not suggest they are sufficient ones.

Low vitamin d levels in the womb could program the genes to be predisposed to certain vascular malformations or just veins that are unable to fight off viruses. Then, when a virus in fact invades the body the vessels could collapse, become malfunctioning, etc.

I think the evidence is out there, we just need more processing power to put it all together. Then again, I'm no scientist, just thinking outloud. :)
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